Vaccine arguments are pulling us apart

[SmithCW]

Hi everyone,

This is really hard for me to talk about as I know how judgemental some people are over anything COVID related. So, both me and my husband aren't vaccinated against COVID. At first it was because we weren't old enough (mid 20s) but when it became available for us we, like many of our peers, were hesitant to take the leap. The vaccine felt too new and we knew we would be TTC within the next few months and wanted to make sure it would be safe. My husband felt strongly that he didn't need it (98% survival rate for his age).

Over time there's so much more evidence about the side effects and whatnot and that coupled with the extreme pressures from society I've wanted to get vaccinated for the last few months. Problem is - he doesn't and really doesn't want me to either. His family (my in laws) have flipped and gone massive anti-vaxx in all the crazy extreme ways (they want us to promise we'd never get it) and although my husband isn't like that I can't help but feel he is heavily influenced by his family but he thinks I'm heavily influenced by mine (all had the vaccine and are desperate for me to).

It's hard to put this into words or to make people understand but I now feel CONSTANTLY anxious over this - it's like a dark cloud that follows me around. I feel like a black sheep in society and I HATE IT. But I'm also not ready to risk my marriage over it? I am so scared this will tear us apart and we are only newlyweds. We got married in Aug and have been TTC since. I just don't know what's right here. His family (especially his mum) are so full on about it that I genuinely think they'd cut me out for being vaccinated but I've been with him for 8 years and his parents are like parents to me - I'm so so scared of upsetting them. It's also sooooo hard when your husband is begging for you not to have it. He says he probably will get it eventually but not for a few years when he feels extremely confident that it won't have any future effects on our children and that we can't possibly know it won't for sure as it's not been around long enough.

I know he sounds OTT but he is honestly the most chilled guy - this is so unlike him. I have this fear that if I go and get it he: a) might just leave me. B) if I were to miscarry/ anything wrong with our child he'd blame me C) I'd tear him away from his family. They would bring this up at EVERY family gathering for years to come.

I know a lot of you will just say "your body your choice" and "good riddance" if he'd leave me but in reality that's a very, very different situation. I suppose I'm looking for some GENUINE advice here. I feel like it's breaking me apart and I can't cope anymore but I love him. I'm not stupid or naive here but I want a way to navigate and handle this in the right way.

Sorry for the long post and I hope I don't cause too much controversy- that's not my aim.

worried = married

Although I would be worried to be married to such a man.

Polio would never have been eradicated if we had not all had the vaccination. It would appear that people were more concerned about the public good than they are now.

We have spoken about this. He is happy for our children to get the normal vaccines but his mum isn't - she has gone completely anti any vaccine.

He has promised me he doesn't agree with that and that his mum is unreasonable there

So if she's unreasonable about the other vaccines, why is she reasonable about this one? Surely it's not the bollocks about it being new and untested? It's gone through all the tests required for vaccines, and has now been tested on literally billions of people worldwide. If he doesn't like so-called "new" vaccines, does your husband intend to refuse flu and pneumonia vaccinations for the rest of his life?

[quote Piggyk2]@SmithCW I'm vaccinated but if I was trying for a baby I think I would hold off and then have the vax after.

Regarding your DH you should be able to voice your own choices and ask him for advice but the final say is down to you and that should be for all things. Its your health OP, your choice.[/quote]
I've just sat down and had a lengthy chat with my husband about the vaccine. Everyone's advice really helped me see clearly and I just bit the bullet and did it.

Emotions ran high (very high at points) but even he can't disregard the stats on pregnant women.

At the moment he would like me to consider falling pregnant first and then having the vaccine. I've suggested we take the afternoon to let things settle and discuss again later.

@SmithCW I have not had any of the vaccines.
I was pregnant when they came out and I chose to wait. If it had any side effects I didn’t want it to affect my baby.
I still haven’t had it. I personally know too many people who are seriously ill because of the vaccine. And I know people who’ve had covid-19 and recovered just fine.
My husband had one AZ and I asked him to wait til I had the baby to have his second just in case he had a bad reaction. He has since decided he isn’t getting another because we personally know too many people who are ill because of these vaccines. One is still in hospital now and has been for over a month.
I say this not to scare you but to explain why I haven’t had it. Everyone has their own experiences and probably a lot of people know plenty who’ve been fine since the vaccines but it really is a case of each to their own. The vaccine won’t stop you spreading it but might prevent you being as sick of you catch covid, however, without a time machine we can’t really know if we would be worse if we caught covid without a vaccine.
What you choose to have done to your body, is your choice and yours alone. You don’t need to discuss it with your husband if he won’t respect your views and it’s definitely not up for discussion with your husbands family. He shouldn’t be discussing your medical decisions with his family.
If YOU want the vaccine and you’ve read all the available information on the side effects and the protection it offers and you’ve made an informed decision for yourself then you get the jab.
My husband and I are both on the same wavelength and although we do disagree on many things we are respectful of each other’s opinions. I would never have stopped him having the vaccine only that I asked he wait til I’d given birth just in case. He would never pressure me to have the vaccine.
If you can’t have a respectful discussion about this then how are you going to raise children together? We refused one vaccine for both our children because we weren’t happy with the risk of it’s side effects compared to the benefits. There are so many decisions to make raising kids. Names, schools, medical, religion…

I’m a doctor. I’ve seen some incredibly sick pregnant women with covid, most of whom have required ITU and early caesarean section to deliver the baby, one at 26 weeks.

I’m not aware of anyone having problems with fertility, pregnancy or premature delivery due to the vaccine.

Yes it hasn’t been around long enough for us to “see” the effects but we understand a huge amount about molecular biology and immunology which we can use to assess the risk.

Please get vaccinated before ttc.

Sweetheart, you’re so young. You’re going to have so many instances in your marriage and your relationships where you will be fighting for a piece of yourself, arguing to be heard and to have the freedom to choose, battling for your own autonomy.

It’s bad enough doing this with just your DH, don’t make your life worse by bringing his parents into your realm of consideration (especially when they’re anti-vaxxers ).

Yes you need your own space and time to make your own decision. Start practicing that now. Start learning how to be yourself within this marriage, how to cut out the noise, how to do what you consider the right thing despite everything and everyone else.

It’s gets easier with practice.

Putting aside the ridiculous anti vax mindset, it is none of his or his families business what you decide to do. Time you stood up for yourself and did what you want without needing permission. Surely it is better to find out sooner rather that later, and certainly before any dc are involved, if your relationship will fail when you simply show you have a backbone or own opinion?

What is going to be the next point of contention? What you do with your body during pregnancy? How you give birth and the interventions/pain relief you choose?

@sosijrol

I personally know too many people who are seriously ill because of the vaccine.

You are aware, aren't you, that the chances of becoming seriously ill with COVID as a pregnant woman are far far greater than your chance of becoming seriously ill from the vaccine?

When you say "seriously ill" what do you actually mean? Can you describe how this serious illness manifests itself? Because I'm sure its not anywhere near as serious as the risk from COVID.

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2021/oct/11/one-in-six-most-critically-ill-patients-are-unvaccinated-pregnant-women-with-covid

You said you’re TTC, what will you do if he/his family say your child can’t get their vaccinations? How much are you willing to let their influence effect your life? Do you want to stay (and have children with) someone you feel so controlled by in this way?

I still haven’t had it. I personally know too many people who are seriously ill because of the vaccine. And I know people who’ve had covid-19 and recovered just fine.

How can anyone look at current stats and spout this sort of claim? We're currently dealing with infection rates around 100K a day with deaths around 100. A year ago we had much lower infection rates but deaths at around 1000 a day. And what has caused that massive improvement, beyond any shadow of a doubt, is vaccination. @sosijrol, please explain how your claimed knowledge of the experience of a few acquaintances outweighs this?

@SmithCW I’m sorry to say that asking you to wait until you’re pregnant sounds like delay tactics to me. Given his stance it makes no sense he would be happier for you to vaccinate when you’re actually carrying his child then when you’re not.

You’re still not deciding this as a ‘team’, he’s still controlling the narrative. If he’s not said anything that has changed your mind then that’s his input done really.

[quote Cornettoninja]@SmithCW I’m sorry to say that asking you to wait until you’re pregnant sounds like delay tactics to me. Given his stance it makes no sense he would be happier for you to vaccinate when you’re actually carrying his child then when you’re not.

You’re still not deciding this as a ‘team’, he’s still controlling the narrative. If he’s not said anything that has changed your mind then that’s his input done really.[/quote]
This! He's controlling you OP.

You shouldn't have to endlessly persuade him to let you have a life saving medical procedure.

His stupidity could easily cost you and your future children their health and lives because it won't just be this one, will it? It'll be every booster and every new vaccine in the future too.

@GaolBhoAlba

I would too, but we're all different. A couple of my Dad's friends are anti vax, and it has astounded me (my Dad too, he can't get his head round their attitude to it). They're both clever, decent, hard working family men - its just this vax issue. Its extraordinary how it has impacted on some, otherwise reasonable, people.

I am actually quite relieved to hear that it’s not just in my family. My previously reasonable father has properly become a massive conspiracy theorist, practically overnight it seems. He keeps sending me these hour-long videos from nuts on YouTube supporting his position.

It is so so so upsetting that I’ve had to block him for a while.

This won't be a popular opinion on here but just get it and don't tell him. Going forward you really do need to keep an eye on how much control his family have over him and ultimately you as this is definitely going to cause further problems in the future.

several things here

1. you can choose to do something he doens't like.

He is chosing to do something you don;t like (not get vaccinated). It is the same, why does he get to dictate to you but you don't get to dictate to him?

1. you have to find a way of being able to respect each others view even if you don't agree. If you can;t, your marriage doesn't have much future, in terms of solving this, I would go down this line - how can we agree to respect each other and have different views? What does that look like for us.
2. At the beginning, I coudl understand why many pregnant women did not want the vaccine. But now 1,000s of women down the line, the evidence is firmly on the side of safety. But you are not pregnant yet. If you get pregnant and get Covid, the outlook for you and your baby is poor. You may well end up in hospital, and you babay may be born prematurely and poorly. That means spending all of your pregnancy worried about getting covid.

Surely better to stop TTC for 2-3 months and get vaccinated, wait a month or so and then resume TTC, knowing that you have given your baby the best chance.

@GoodPrincessWenceslas

I still haven’t had it. I personally know too many people who are seriously ill because of the vaccine. And I know people who’ve had covid-19 and recovered just fine.

How can anyone look at current stats and spout this sort of claim? We're currently dealing with infection rates around 100K a day with deaths around 100. A year ago we had much lower infection rates but deaths at around 1000 a day. And what has caused that massive improvement, beyond any shadow of a doubt, is vaccination. @sosijrol, please explain how your claimed knowledge of the experience of a few acquaintances outweighs this?

This is clearly based on how I feel regarding the people I know. A decision I’ve made for myself. I have not passed comment on stats or studies. Why does that bother you so much?

sorry, just seen that he would rather wait until you are pregnant.
That is NUTS.
Surely much better to get it BEFORE you get pregnant

Regardless of COVID vaccines, if you want to TTC look into the future where your child is due their first childhood vaccines. If his family have fallen down an antivax rabbithole, it will be extremely likely that they will be trying to pressure you not to let the baby have their ordinary vaccines as well.

Do you really want that hassle, or that argument, when your baby is vulnerable and their health is at stake?

You don't want to be TTC with a man who thinks his opinion overrides your bodily autonomy.

Controlling men do not make good partners and they certainly don't make good fathers.

Being pregnant and unvaccinated is dangerous so if you are going to listen to him I’d stop ttc until the pandemic is over.

Basically this ^^

Sorry about the Daily Fail link, but it was the first one that came up
Nearly all pregnant women on ventilators with Covid haven't had jab

There is growing evidence showing that women who are pregnant are at increased risk of serious consequences from coronavirus

At the moment he would like me to consider falling pregnant first and then having the vaccine.

At the moment he would like you to have a more risky pregnancy because he refuses to believe what the medical profession are advising

How about you say to him “if you want me to respect your stupid and uneducated choice not to vaccinate, you need to respect my choice to have the vaccination”

And what you do with your body is none of his family’s business. Why is your husband so under the thumb that he discusses your personal medical issues with them? He sounds far too controlling IMO, and I’m not convinced that you should be having a baby with him.

@GoodPrincessWenceslas @thepeopleversuswork my comment wasn’t for or against vaccine. It’s to explain to OP that people can have different opinions and views (I didn’t want it but husband did, and neither of us stopped the other doing what was right for them) but still be respectful of the others view. She should get the jab if she wants it and her husband shouldn’t if he doesn’t want it. The point being, they are each free to have bodily autonomy for their own reasons without being hassled or questioned. A point clearly lost on you both. This is dividing society and not in a good way.

Sounds like it’s more an issue with your in-laws.

Who will know if you just get vaccinated? Why would you have to announce it to his family?