WWYD heart attack and no ambulance?

[1wokeuplikethis]

This is what happened to our family today. My dad had a heart attack, I phoned 999 and I was put on hold. I’ve heard about this but never thought it actually happens. When I finally got through they said an ambulance would take 2hrs so I can wait or take him myself. Nearest hospital is 30mins away, so I needed my husband to drive so I could be there if dad went unconscious but seriously, WHAT DO YOU DO? I thought, the shop nearby has a defibrillator outside, should I take that? But I don’t know if you can take them. It was busy A roads the whole journey with speed cameras and every light was red- do you go through them? If dad had gone unconscious in the car, do you stop and pull him out on the wet road to do CPR? Carry on to hospital?

I felt so helpless. You always think an ambulance is round the corner but what if it isn’t and you’re just an average joe with no medical knowledge?

Please please tell me, what would you do in that circumstance? I was not prepared.

"but as a person who always likes to be prepared this absolutely threw me. I felt so abandoned."

I get this. This is so poor. OP shouldn't be put in this position.

The NHS is a shit show right now

The Govt is a shit show right now. There, I’ve fixed it for you.

I’m so sorry this happened to you @1wokeuplikethis. Please write to your MP about it. This is absolutely not the fault of the people working on the ground in the NHS.

One of the reasons DS2 left his post in A&E was because he felt he wasn’t able to do his job properly because of patients having excessively long waits on ambulances outside. If you’ve got 6, or more vehicles outside A&E for upto 8 hrs at a time, waiting to unload they can’t be out seeing more patients can they?

There’s a massive shortage of staff atm, too, because of Covid. It’s really not a great time to be ill.

I hope your dad is soon on the mend

If someone could be safely moved, I wouldn't use an ambulance and would drive the person to hospital if possible.

What an awful experience.
Many of us don't drive or own vehicles.
Are we supposed to put them in a wheelbarrow and go to the bus stop if we haven't got the money for a taxi?
Terrifying.

I have posted this before but my dad had a heart attack in July and they were unable to say if and when and ambulance was coming. We ended up taking my dad in ourselves and then we really struggled to get attention for him once at A&E. He had to go in alone and watching him through the window, bent over in a chair was too much, so I ended up standing in the doorway begging someone to please look at my dad. Thank God I did because he was having a big heart attack though first they were more concerned with telling me to get back instead of listening to what I was trying to say.

He was in hospital 7 weeks and suffered a lot of heart damage which could have been prevented as per his Dr's. Its been a long road resulting in the fitting of an icd and pacemaker after a very tough time in hospital.

I'm glad your dad is ok. Your post brought back all the feelings I have struggled with since July.

@wanttomarryamillionaire

If he stopped breathing in the car he would immediately become eligible for a cat 1 ambulance. Yes you would have to pull over and do CPR.

Heart attack is a cat 1 already !

@FindingMeno

What an awful experience. Many of us don't drive or own vehicles. Are we supposed to put them in a wheelbarrow and go to the bus stop if we haven't got the money for a taxi? Terrifying.

This is why those of us that can drive to the hospital should, to free up ambulances for those that can't or people that can't be moved

^Many of us don't drive or own vehicles.
Are we supposed to put them in a wheelbarrow and go to the bus stop if we haven't got the money for a taxi?^

Well, yes. Ambulances have always been for emergencies and not to be used in place of a bus or a taxi.

@ElftonWednesday I meant in the case of an emergency when an ambulance cannot attend

Same thing happened to my dad 2 weeks ago. They managed to send a paramedic in her own car and she was mortified at the further 2 hour wait for an ambulance, after continously chasing it up herself. At one point she told my mum there was literally nothing else she could do other than support until the ambulance arrived.
We're in Essex and apparently it was due to staff shortages, it really is worrying.

There should be charges for using ambulances unless it is an emergency, maybe on a scale between £20 and £100 depending on the situation. The whole NHS needs sorting out and some charges put in place, like people pay for NHS dentist and prescriptions.

How utterly terrifying for you xxx

I’ve seen a few comments on this thread saying how much faster/ better it would be in the US, but also how expensive to the patient.

This is just a gentle reminder: there’s more than two countries in the world with health systems. Your choices aren’t limited a chronically (criminally) underfunded NHS or wildly profiteering US system.

OP Im sorry for what happened, that sounds like an awful situation to be in.

Why tho are people blaming the government? Surely hospitals cannot have unlimited resources to deal with emergencies and with covid adding so many extra numbers to the amount of ambulances called and staff getting sick, it means there will be even less resources available, yet the answer to reducing the amount of covid is a lockdown but people do not want to do this.
Yes a lockdown is a massive hit to the economy and is not something we want to do but if we want the NHS to be available for emergency situations, then this is an example of why we have be to do it?

@Twatforaneighbour

OP Im sorry for what happened, that sounds like an awful situation to be in.

Why tho are people blaming the government? Surely hospitals cannot have unlimited resources to deal with emergencies and with covid adding so many extra numbers to the amount of ambulances called and staff getting sick, it means there will be even less resources available, yet the answer to reducing the amount of covid is a lockdown but people do not want to do this.
Yes a lockdown is a massive hit to the economy and is not something we want to do but if we want the NHS to be available for emergency situations, then this is an example of why we have be to do it?

11 years of underfunding, staff shortages caused by poor training policy, and Brexit have all been the government's deliberate choices.

i can sort of relate to this, last sept i woke having a major asthma attack, tried all my normal things but nothing was working, i was going blue! shaking heart racing, husband checked my blood pressure and i was 200! phoned for an ambulance to b told it would be anything upto 4 hrs wait even though they agreed i needed to be in asap. i was one stage away from heart attack. hubby had to drive with me absolutely struggling for air and he even had to carry my into the hospital. he was terrified driving, but basically said sod the speed limit if he had got stopped that would have been better than the situation he was dealing with as they could have blue lighted me to the hospital which is what i really needed. ok clearly they sorted me out that time, but its only a matter of time before we go thr all that again

@Twatforaneighbour

OP Im sorry for what happened, that sounds like an awful situation to be in.

Why tho are people blaming the government? Surely hospitals cannot have unlimited resources to deal with emergencies and with covid adding so many extra numbers to the amount of ambulances called and staff getting sick, it means there will be even less resources available, yet the answer to reducing the amount of covid is a lockdown but people do not want to do this.
Yes a lockdown is a massive hit to the economy and is not something we want to do but if we want the NHS to be available for emergency situations, then this is an example of why we have be to do it?

I’m blaming the Govt because this isn’t due to Covid, it’s been going on for years. Ambulances are regularly stacked up outside A&E departments, for hours on end, waiting to offload patients because there’s nowhere in A&E to put them. All the cubicles are full, resus is full and corridors are full of patients on trolleys. It won’t change until people stop voting Conservative

@Littleoakhorn

I’ve seen a few comments on this thread saying how much faster/ better it would be in the US, but also how expensive to the patient.

This is just a gentle reminder: there’s more than two countries in the world with health systems. Your choices aren’t limited a chronically (criminally) underfunded NHS or wildly profiteering US system.

Agreed. I don't understand why any calls for change to the health system in either the USA or the UK seem to inevitably end up with, "well, we don't want to end up like them do we?" Followed by scary music.

There are alternatives to the current set up with the NHS, reform isn't necessarily a bad thing and in no way means we should trying to copy the US profit driven system. We never seem to have in-depth discussions about the French/Australian/Norwegian systems or any other alternative. Reform doesn't mean dismantaling the NHS, it does need improvements and there other methods which might work better in the 21st century which doesn't automatically equal using the US set up.

Countries With The Best Health Care Systems, 2021
Health Care in the U.S. Compared to Other High-Income Countries

There are more than 2 options for healthcare, it would perhaps be sensible to have a proper debate on it. I don't hold up much hope though. Far easier to point at the US and tell terrifying stories of people being left unable to even look at a hospital without handing over a massive golden ingot. Then people in the US can point back and go look, in the UK they're just left on hospital trollies for weeks before even getting sight of a doctor.

OP I'm sorry, being unable to help someone close to us in a life or death situation is exactly the stuff of nightmares. Take it easy on yourself for the next few weeks. Don't bottle up what you're feeling - you will have a better chance at emotionally getting over this if you "let it out". Fresh air every day and early nights. Your nervous system has taken a beating and needs a chance to calm back down and our brains process this sort of thing when at rest and when asleep. Alcohol is ultimately not your friend right now - better to get a big hug from DH instead. Your DF had a heart attack but you (and DH to lesser extent) went through a traumatic experience. It doesn't mean you'll get PTSD (that's a month+ of symptoms), but does mean you need time to recover and to give yourself the best conditions for that. Of course you feel bad - what just happened was enormous.

My close friend's DM fell on the pavement and broke her hip when out shopping. She had to lie on a wet pavement for 6-7 hours before the ambulance could come. This was about 18 months ago. The government needs to stop having cheese and wine in their meetings and serve the country, first of all by fixing the state of the nation's health, which can never be optimum if people who have heart attacks can't get to hospital. I don't drive so my relatives are screwed.

We had the same situation but with a stroke. My brother ran every red light and sped the whole way. If he hadn't my grandad would be dead. He had fallen unconscious and was in a very bad way.

At the end of the day he was willing to risk the consequences to save his life. I dont think you would be prosecuted in those circumstances anyway.

My friend did for on her husband as he lay lifeless on the floor and she was just on hold with 999. When she got through they just said, sorry, no ambulances. This was pre pandemic. It is not new.

My mum waited three hours for a an ambulance in August after collapsing at home. We were also put on hold. It was like a nightmare.

Covid really isn't the problem at the moment, call numbers have been going up year on year and together with wait times outside hospital escalating due to social care being in a complete state, there just aren't enough ambulances available and you can't magic one up.
Years of underfunding both the NHS and social care together with seriously bad management have led to this plus Tony Blair saying that anyone who wanted (not needed) and ambulance would get one.

We are going to start to get really tough and say to people who have non-lifethreatening illnesses or injuries and are mobile that they have to get themselves to hospital, it is the only way we can achieve the 18 minute response time for heart attacks etc and get out to the elderly folk stuck on the floor. Currently their wait time is up to 6 hours and can be even longer which is neither fair nor safe.

It's horrendous. I know wait times vary but they seem to be ridiculously long and only getting longer all the time.

I know of a someone who called for an ambulance with chest pain and it took 12 hours for an ambulance to arrive. Sadly he had passed away prior to ambulance attending. He was on his own with no way of getting to hospital.

In your circumstances I'd have done the same as you and just risk assessed every red light on the way.

Glad to hear your dad is doing ok. Look after yourself, it's a shock to have to make these decisions while also being extremely worried about a loved one.

@Stormwhale of course he would have been prosecuted if he had caused an accident. Do you really think that killing or injuring other people would be ok because you grandad was in trouble? Hell, it wouldnt even have helped your grandad if he'd hit another car on one of those junctions.

Jesus. I despair.
What if you don't drive or have a car? What if you have a stroke and need an injection to save you from life long issues?