WWYD heart attack and no ambulance?

[1wokeuplikethis]

This is what happened to our family today. My dad had a heart attack, I phoned 999 and I was put on hold. I’ve heard about this but never thought it actually happens. When I finally got through they said an ambulance would take 2hrs so I can wait or take him myself. Nearest hospital is 30mins away, so I needed my husband to drive so I could be there if dad went unconscious but seriously, WHAT DO YOU DO? I thought, the shop nearby has a defibrillator outside, should I take that? But I don’t know if you can take them. It was busy A roads the whole journey with speed cameras and every light was red- do you go through them? If dad had gone unconscious in the car, do you stop and pull him out on the wet road to do CPR? Carry on to hospital?

I felt so helpless. You always think an ambulance is round the corner but what if it isn’t and you’re just an average joe with no medical knowledge?

Please please tell me, what would you do in that circumstance? I was not prepared.

@SetFreeTheKites

Defibrillators in public places are in boxes locked with security codes. When somebody calls 999 and tells the call assessor that somebody is in cardiac arrest/they're unconscious with ineffective breathing, the call assessor will be able to see on their screen where the nearest public access defibrillator is and if there is one nearby and there is somebody able to go and collect it while somebody else is performing CPR, then the call assessor can provide the code to access the defib. They can't just be taken out by anybody.

This is why everyone needs to do a course in First Aid including use of a defibrillator.

Awful Just awful hope your dad is getting better.

This govt is a joke. People can't get an ambulance for a heart track and we still
Have no social distancing in place

I don't want a lockdown but we do need something to help this situation

Not acceptable 😡😡😡

To use the public defibrillators you'll need the keypad code. 999 can give you that but I doubt they'd want you carrying it around just in case.
You can buy defibrillators to keep at home. If it's ongoing risk maybe something to think about.

@Porcupineintherough

It was Christmas day. The roads were completely empty. He made the choice he needed to to save a life. There was no accident, so clearly I was talking about being prosecuted for speeding/running lights.

"I don't want a lockdown but we do need something to help this situation"

So what do you expect the government to do about it ?

Where we are average wait time is currently 4 hrs. so I wouldn't hesitate to drive.

@IDontKnow00

2 hour ambulance wait for a heart attack? That's unbelievable and terrifying. I'm so sorry this happened to you. Is this what it's like everywhere atm?

It is like that in many places and in two weeks will be worse everywhere - but at least NYE parties can go ahead

OP - I really hope your dad will be OK, take very good care of yourself as you have had a scary experience and try to focus on how lucky it was that you had a car, weren't inebriated, the journey went well...

I hope your Dad is okay, OP - how traumatic and scary. I'm so sorry. flowers

I do wish that the posters on MN who think Covid is a conspiracy, and vaccines don't work, and we shouldn't ever have a lockdown to protect the NHS, could read this thread, though. Because it's always been about not allowing the NHS to become overwhelmed so that everyone can get the urgent care they need. Staffing and care in the NHS at the moment is on its knees with Covid, Brexit, and Tory cuts and austerity for the last ten years.

I hope the people who thought Brexit would be great for the NHS, and who voted Tory, could also read this and see what the real life repercussions of their political decisions are for real people.
This^^

11 years of underfunding, staff shortages caused by poor training policy, and Brexit have all been the government's deliberate choices.

Yes. But it's also the public's choices because they voted for Brexit and keep voting in this shitty Government because they don't seem to understand that cheaper taxes means less money for Government services.

Just start a thread about inheritance tax (my dad's worked hard all his life, blah, blah) or increasing the tax rate and the vast majority will say how unfair it is. I don't know how they think taxes can be raised. And the tax burden already (quite rightly) falls on the higher earners, but you can only squeeze them so far.

And as for Brexit, anyone who spent any time in hospital pre-Brexit would have come across the Greek newly qualified doctor or the Polish nurse etc. at least in London. How they thought Brexit wouldn't change things, I just don't know.

People just don't seem to see that their choices have consequences. Unfortunately those who keep voting for better public services also have to suffer the consequences of no ambulances.

*falls more heavily

im glad your dad is ok , i dont know what i would have done in that situation either , its just crap ,the old days of phoning an ambulance and it actually getting there in a few minutes are long gone , its just so unacceptable , but nothing we can do about it , in 2018 my mum had a bad fall on my garden path shes 84 , broke her collor bone , lying there in agony and it took a good hour before they got there , she was face down on the path , freezing cold , had to put 3 mink fleeces over her , and every time i rang back to see how much longer it was the same old stuff , ambulance was on the way , got divirted , i felt like screaming down the phone at the dispatcher even tho its nothing to do with them how long it takes ,

id rather have a reformed nhs along the french / german model even if it meant we payed into it more ,for a service thats fit for purpose

Oh OP what a traumatic experience for you.

My dad had a heart attack while helping a friend move things, which as over 80 he shouldn’t have been doing anyway but my DM used to volunteer him for all sorts of things. This was February 2019 so pre pandemic. He started with the pain in chest and arm, so went to sit down in his car. Thankfully the friend knew the signs and immediately drove him to the hospital. I don’t know why they didn’t call an ambulance or even if they did but the hospital was 15 minutes away and dad arrived there mid heart attack. Dad was not well for a long time. But he’s doing ok now.

We were told he was only alive for getting treatment quickly.

So I think I’d have gone to the hospital asap rather than wait up to two hours. I used to do a St Johns Ambulance first aid course regularly as I was first sided for work first over 25 years but your post has made me think I need to go again for refresher. These things have been on hold.

@Pinkypenguin

11 years of underfunding, staff shortages caused by poor training policy, and Brexit have all been the government's deliberate choices.

Yes. But it's also the public's choices because they voted for Brexit and keep voting in this shitty Government because they don't seem to understand that cheaper taxes means less money for Government services.

Just start a thread about inheritance tax (my dad's worked hard all his life, blah, blah) or increasing the tax rate and the vast majority will say how unfair it is. I don't know how they think taxes can be raised. And the tax burden already (quite rightly) falls on the higher earners, but you can only squeeze them so far.

And as for Brexit, anyone who spent any time in hospital pre-Brexit would have come across the Greek newly qualified doctor or the Polish nurse etc. at least in London. How they thought Brexit wouldn't change things, I just don't know.

People just don't seem to see that their choices have consequences. Unfortunately those who keep voting for better public services also have to suffer the consequences of no ambulances.

agreed , id rather cut my thoat than vote conservative ,

I think some people are getting confused between a heart attack and cardiac arrest. A heart attack does not require CPR, CPR is only required if the person is in cardiac arrest and their heart has stopped. agree with this. Actually most heart attacks don’t result in cardiac arrest, although that doesn’t mean a heart attack isn’t an emergency obviously.

The truth is that even if an ambulance can arrive promptly, the chances of surviving a cardiac arrest outside of hospital are tiny, around 5%.

As for saying that it’s all the government’s fault, there is also some public culpability here on the part of the millions of time wasters who ring the emergency services every year for things which simply aren’t even worthy of going to hospital for at worst, or which the patient could drive themselves to a&e for at best. This is one of the reasons why 111 was established, in order to hopefully reduce some of the burden on the emergency services.

id rather have a reformed nhs along the french / german model even if it meant we payed into it more ,for a service thats fit for purpose the thing is that people don’t actually want a reformed nhs. They want the exact nhs that they already have. Where everything should be treated and paid for despite the fact the number of treatments available for various conditions is going up, thus meaning the amount of resource and money is going down.

Stop offering treatments like bloody IVF on the NHS, and free up some of that money to improve the emergency responses and treatments. Just to use one example. But everyone thinks their situation is unique and should be treated. Well perhaps sometimes the less life-threatening things shouldn’t be.

Op, hope your Dad makes a good recovery.

I think it might have been mentioned previously on this thread. But having the fire service trained in attending emergency medical calls, could be useful.
When we were in America on holiday, Ds who was a baby at the time, had some kind of febrile seizure and was unconscious. When we dialled 911 for medical help, it was the fire service that initially turned up.

@AlternativePerspective

I think some people are getting confused between a heart attack and cardiac arrest. A heart attack does not require CPR, CPR is only required if the person is in cardiac arrest and their heart has stopped. agree with this. Actually most heart attacks don’t result in cardiac arrest, although that doesn’t mean a heart attack isn’t an emergency obviously.

The truth is that even if an ambulance can arrive promptly, the chances of surviving a cardiac arrest outside of hospital are tiny, around 5%.

As for saying that it’s all the government’s fault, there is also some public culpability here on the part of the millions of time wasters who ring the emergency services every year for things which simply aren’t even worthy of going to hospital for at worst, or which the patient could drive themselves to a&e for at best. This is one of the reasons why 111 was established, in order to hopefully reduce some of the burden on the emergency services.

I'm not sure what the rules are for non urgent ambulance calls but if someone rings up saying they've sprained their ankle and need an ambulance, then surely the ambulance should just not be sent? There has to be a cut off point where people have to ring for a taxi. Just because someone wants something, shouldn't mean they get it.

How scary. Not sure how I would react. I think I would have got them in the car and driven to the hospital.

Although might depend on the age of the person. I remember my Granny had a heart attack at a party before Christmas years and years ago when she was late 70s. She was blue lighted to hospital and she did survive. Afterwards many times she said she was grateful for the care she had received but really she wished that nature had been able to take it's course as it would have been a lovely way to go and a good time, she did not have a good quality of life for the next 6 years that she lived and often commented that she was on borrowed time and not sure that was a good thing.

This is sadly not uncommon. 2 hrs for a neighbour with similar. When I rang back to get a code for the defib was a 10 min wait to get through to 999.

And often they aren’t staying on the phone. They say call back if situation worsens.

In France the Pompiers (Fire Service) are also first responders for medical emergencies. They truly are amazing and are all trained paramedics.
We still have ambulances too.

@AlternativePerspective

id rather have a reformed nhs along the french / german model even if it meant we payed into it more ,for a service thats fit for purpose the thing is that people don’t actually want a reformed nhs. They want the exact nhs that they already have. Where everything should be treated and paid for despite the fact the number of treatments available for various conditions is going up, thus meaning the amount of resource and money is going down.

Stop offering treatments like bloody IVF on the NHS, and free up some of that money to improve the emergency responses and treatments. Just to use one example. But everyone thinks their situation is unique and should be treated. Well perhaps sometimes the less life-threatening things shouldn’t be.

I agree there should be less access to the NHS for absolutely everything (but look what happens on here when someone wants the NHS to supply gluten free bread or aspirins on prescription). Or if people suggest you go to the pharmacist first for non urgent assessments.

People, should be seriously discouraged from going to the GP for every little thing that they could deal with themselves. People should be encouraged to look after their own health, so they're less of a burden on the NHS.

But maybe we do need to look at another model for healthcare, so that people do have to pay a bit for accessing routine checks, as they do in other countries.

Unfortunately, I don't trust this Government not to go full on US-style private healthcare/insurance route, which will enrich the pockets of their own supporters one way or another.

How dreadful. I hope your dad is getting better now.

How the government can claim the NHS is not overwhelmed is beyond me.

I’d have done exactly what you did - bundle him into the car and belt it to the hospital ourselves. As PP said, if you get stopped at least they can blue light him in themselves!

My dad had a heart attack recently, luckily they sent an ambulance quickly, similarly a few weeks later when we feared another was happening. When my DS was ill a week later (he’s 3) the 111 operator said she was arranging an ambulance for him but the wait time was going to be long. Once she heard his most recent temperature reading she told us to get him to hospital ASAP ourselves if we can because we’d be fastest and he was at risk of seizures.

It’s bloody terrifying, and I don’t blame you for feeling traumatised. I’m sorry it happened to you both, and I wish your Dad a speedy recovery. 💐

@saltinesandcoffeecups

Is this what it's like everywhere atm?

I know the favorite pastime here is to mock US healthcare. But our wait times average 4-9 minutes regardless of the type of call (stubbed toe, strokes, heart attacks, to picking up gran after a fall) for an ambulance.

I honestly can’t imagine counting ambulance wait times in hours.

OP, I’m pleased your dad is doing ok.

To give some reassurance, the December ambulance response times report for england gives nine minutes for the mean response time for cat 1, so I don’t think this is usual.

It’s always a good idea to have first aid training and so on though.