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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

WWYD heart attack and no ambulance?

365 replies

1wokeuplikethis · 28/12/2021 00:47

This is what happened to our family today. My dad had a heart attack, I phoned 999 and I was put on hold. I’ve heard about this but never thought it actually happens. When I finally got through they said an ambulance would take 2hrs so I can wait or take him myself. Nearest hospital is 30mins away, so I needed my husband to drive so I could be there if dad went unconscious but seriously, WHAT DO YOU DO? I thought, the shop nearby has a defibrillator outside, should I take that? But I don’t know if you can take them. It was busy A roads the whole journey with speed cameras and every light was red- do you go through them? If dad had gone unconscious in the car, do you stop and pull him out on the wet road to do CPR? Carry on to hospital?

I felt so helpless. You always think an ambulance is round the corner but what if it isn’t and you’re just an average joe with no medical knowledge?

Please please tell me, what would you do in that circumstance? I was not prepared.

OP posts:
Longcovid21 · 28/12/2021 03:51

Give asprin
Get to hospital
@Seafog I think you are wrong about not moving him. The op had no choice. Grabbing a defribulator on the way a good call. If he became unresponsive en route stop and do cpr. And call 999 again.

saltinesandcoffeecups · 28/12/2021 03:52

@GeorgiaGirl52

And mine is paid for by my health insurance. I may have to pay a $50-$100 copay. And others don’t have to pay anything if they are on Medicaid or Medicare.

If you thought she didn’t need it you could have always refused treatment and transport. I probably would have driven my kid with a broken arm like the poster above. I probably wouldn’t have for a dislocated knee though, too much pain and chance of doing more damage.

saltinesandcoffeecups · 28/12/2021 03:57

@Kinneddar

Well neither can I or the rest of us who are in the UK. It's not normally like this

Sadly it is. This is common now. The waiting time is frightening. I'm not at all surprised to hear of that waiting time.

Request the fire service

The Fire Service won't come out for a medical matter. They'll refer you straight back to ambulance

That is interesting… here in most cities the fire department runs both EMS and fire calls. There are cities that have hospital based EMS, but chances are in those areas the FD will show up first and start treatment (Basic Life Support/EMT) then the ambulance arrives a few minutes later to take over (Advanced Life Support/Paramedic).

From what I’ve experienced I prefer the combined Fire/EMS setup. But, any port in a storm as they say.

Kinneddar · 28/12/2021 04:03

It's totally different here. Fire fighters are first aid trained so they can help at their calls until Paramedics arrive but they won't go as first responders to medical calls. The 2 services are totally separate here

It was suggested a few years ago that firefighters undertook more medical training but the Firefighters union.wouldnt back it - nor would most Firefighters apparantly.

Motherofalittledragon · 28/12/2021 04:04

Similar thing happened to me last week, I'm my DM carer and in the early hours she woke me she could breathe, she has lung disease called 999 couldn't get through at first, she waited an hour for an ambulance and ended up in resus when she got to hospital. Unfortunately I couldn't put her in the car as she literally couldn't move as she couldn't breathe and was delirious. I really thought I was watching her die before me.

MintJulia · 28/12/2021 04:09

in 2010 while swine flu was raging, my 2 yo had a similarly urgent medical emergency. The GP had been to the house, checked him and had him admitted remotely to the paediatric ward at the local general hospital 15 miles away.

He asked me if I had a car, and then said 'I don't think we can afford to wait for an ambulance'.

The GP had to go to another sick toddler. I was on my own. I put DS in the car and drove to the local hospital. I didn't stop and worry about speed cameras. It was the most frightening time I can remember but it wasn't a point worth debating.

I hope your df is better soon. Flowers

Nosnowthisyear · 28/12/2021 04:10

I was with someone once when they had a heart attack. He was driving. Fortunately he didn’t collapse. We swapped seats and I drove him straight to hospital.

He had all the classic symptoms but it was still a shock when it was confirmed it was a heart attack as he was in his 30s.

Coyoacan · 28/12/2021 04:11

Well done you. I would have been a total disaster.

I left the UK many years and I remember when they brought in special heart attack ambulances. Now that was modernity and now everything is going backwards

Vvvvip · 28/12/2021 04:19

Taking the AED with you, is that allowed? When I was at boarding school I remember the nurse using a kids epipen on another student in the canteen and then the other kid having a reaction and collapsing and he died from MSG allergy. She was struck off for that. This is a bit the same isn't it. People rely on something they think is there and then it isn't and they are screwed. This whole story is sickening and shocking, less skocking than the calm acceptance of the NHS worshippers. It's criminal and I hope this is one thread that ends up in the daily mail. People need to get a grip and realise that this is not normal.

Bunnycat101 · 28/12/2021 04:30

That is terrifying. The definition of ‘overwhelmed’ must be very high if we’re not there yet. If you can, write to your MP and the health select committee. No idea whether something like your call would be even recorded in any data.

Merrymumoftwo · 28/12/2021 04:30

Just to add for cardiac arrest if no ambulances they pass to police as a number of police vehicles have defibs. Appreciate its not perfect as police could be dealing with calls but it’s been the back up for a while now

pollyglot · 28/12/2021 04:39

I am so very sorry to hear this...what an awful situation, but how wise of you to read up about CPR. I can understand, as I have cardiac issues and thought I was having a heart attack 2 nights ago - extreme chest pain and BP through the roof. Though we live in an isolated small town, the ambulance was here within 10 minutes-I can't imagine the despair of my poor DH if they had said what they said to you. Best of luck to you all, and compliments of the season.

ElftonWednesday · 28/12/2021 04:57

My DM collapsed and cracked her jaw when she had her heart attack. She was semi-conscious but she definitely needed an ambulance as it would have been really hard for us to get her down the stairs and into the car, and we weren't sure at that point if she'd broken any bones. In the OP's case I'd probably just drive them straight there, with someone else in the back seat with them as the ambulance would definitely take longer.

sashh · 28/12/2021 05:14

I would have phoned the police and / or fire service, actually where I am is 5 mins from a fire station.

I know they don't have the full ambulance but they are first aid trained and in the case of the fire service have oxygen, which in the case of a heart attack, is more useful than a defib.

Some police cars also carry defibs and all have first aid kits.

Either can 'blue light' you to the hospital

I'm sorry this happened to you OP and I didn't type that in any way to make you think you should have done that, I put it for anyone who might read this.

I hope your dad is on the mend.

Redglitter · 28/12/2021 05:28

I would have phoned the police and / or fire service, actually where I am is 5 mins from a fire station

They won't attend as first responders. A medical emergency will just be passed back to ambulance. We've had calls at work (Police) from people who can't get an ambulance for various reasons & we don't attend. Well make sure ambulance control are aware of the call but that's it. Like the ambulance service were at breaking point too & don't have enough resources to deal with our own calls let alone take on another agencies overflow

Either can 'blue light' you to the hospital

Fire Service certainly won't. They can't put a civilian in the back of the appliance. They're not allowed

countrygirl99 · 28/12/2021 05:30

@foxgoosefinch

I hope your Dad is okay, OP - how traumatic and scary. I'm so sorry. Flowers

I do wish that the posters on MN who think Covid is a conspiracy, and vaccines don't work, and we shouldn't ever have a lockdown to protect the NHS, could read this thread, though. Because it's always been about not allowing the NHS to become overwhelmed so that everyone can get the urgent care they need. Staffing and care in the NHS at the moment is on its knees with Covid, Brexit, and Tory cuts and austerity for the last ten years.

I hope the people who thought Brexit would be great for the NHS, and who voted Tory, could also read this and see what the real life repercussions of their political decisions are for real people.

Hugs to you, OP, and your lovely dad. Flowers

MIL had a 4 hour wait for an ambulance 3 years ago - well before covid. She is severely disabled and there was no way FIL could get her into his car.
NotBadConsidering · 28/12/2021 05:46

called 999 couldn't get through at first

I mean that right there on its own is a shocking indictment of the system. To not be able to get through to a person when you ring the emergency number is awful.

ToJabOrNotToJab · 28/12/2021 05:46

I'm not surprised you're traumatised. I don't think you had any option than to get him to hospital ASAP. Condolences on the loss of your mum, this first Christmas without her will have been difficult in itself, without this experience too. Best wishes for a speedy recovery for your dad. I hope you've managed some rest tonight, be kind to yourself - you've had a rough time of it Flowers

Greys007 · 28/12/2021 05:52

@1wokeuplikethis I’m so sorry you had to experience that OP. How terrifying 😓 and I’m sorry to hear about your mum. Glad your Dad seems to be doing ok ❤️
My Grandfather (89) had a really nasty fall at the start of Dec - he literally couldn’t move and had a nasty head injury. Medical advice on the phone was absolutely not to try and move him and to wait for paramedics. And that both our local A&Es (40ish minutes in opposite directions) were full! 7 hours it took for an ambulance. Someone called back after 3 hours to check for signs of a stroke. Obviously we knew that his fall wasn’t likely to be life threatening and wasn’t the highest priority call which is fair enough but it’s getting to be quite a scary situation when there aren’t resources to deal with a heart attack promptly Flowers

Thank you for posting though. I have a DS (13 months) and have been meaning to do an updated first aid course ‘just incase’ but we’ve been so busy it slipped my mind. I’ve just booked one for DH and I.

Shinychestnuts · 28/12/2021 06:07

Bloody hell Buildingthefuture what an awful experience. Glad to hear your colleague is OK but that's terrible.

Can any A & E personnel explain why no one could help you being him in once you had arrived at the hospital?

Shinychestnuts · 28/12/2021 06:10

Op, glad to hear your dad is doing OK Flowers

IroningBoardz · 28/12/2021 06:13

I think some people are getting confused between a heart attack and cardiac arrest. A heart attack does not require CPR, CPR is only required if the person is in cardiac arrest and their heart has stopped.

Rainbows246 · 28/12/2021 06:14

So sorry and hope your dad is ok.

I work for the NHS. This isn’t new and this will only get worse as covid spreads across the U.K. . Also at this time of year the ambulance service struggle normally pre pandemic. If anyone has seen the ambulance programme they openly show this every year. They’ve large numbers of staff off sick now too all at once. Then you get to the hospital and a&e is rammed and short staffed too.

However this isn’t new pre covid ( 2019) in January my mum in law was having a suspected heart attack at home after waiting a period of time they got her in the car and took her to a&e as it’s a 5-10 min drive. Once she was at the hospital her care was amazing and she was treated quickly and with surgery and returned home a few days later.

I doubt she would receive the same treatment so fast, so smoothly if the same happened now. I wouldn’t want any of my relatives in an emergency right now. The whole service is currently broken and the government is to blame not us or the call handler trying to do their best

flashpaper · 28/12/2021 06:24

@saltinesandcoffeecups

Is this what it's like everywhere atm?

I know the favorite pastime here is to mock US healthcare. But our wait times average 4-9 minutes regardless of the type of call (stubbed toe, strokes, heart attacks, to picking up gran after a fall) for an ambulance.

I honestly can’t imagine counting ambulance wait times in hours.

Well yes, that's because if Mr More Money Than Sense has a stubbed toe, he can afford to pay through the nose for an ambulance, but if Mrs Heating or Eating is having a stroke, she can't so she dies at home.

I'm sorry this happened to you OP. I'm glad your DF is on the mend Thanks

Oblomov21 · 28/12/2021 06:28

Poor you. That sounds horrendous. I would expect an ambulance for a heart attack. Is this now the norm? I would be cross. Is this how low the nhs has sunk? I'd have driven him.