WWYD heart attack and no ambulance?

[1wokeuplikethis]

This is what happened to our family today. My dad had a heart attack, I phoned 999 and I was put on hold. I’ve heard about this but never thought it actually happens. When I finally got through they said an ambulance would take 2hrs so I can wait or take him myself. Nearest hospital is 30mins away, so I needed my husband to drive so I could be there if dad went unconscious but seriously, WHAT DO YOU DO? I thought, the shop nearby has a defibrillator outside, should I take that? But I don’t know if you can take them. It was busy A roads the whole journey with speed cameras and every light was red- do you go through them? If dad had gone unconscious in the car, do you stop and pull him out on the wet road to do CPR? Carry on to hospital?

I felt so helpless. You always think an ambulance is round the corner but what if it isn’t and you’re just an average joe with no medical knowledge?

Please please tell me, what would you do in that circumstance? I was not prepared.

@SetFreeTheKites thanks for that info! always wondered how you would access one when locked .

[quote EbonanzaScrooge]@saltinesandcoffeecups why would the operator be fired? If they don’t need to provide CPR instructions then the call is disconnected unless the situation worsened in which case the caller is told to call back.

You can’t stay on the phone just to have a conversation. There’s other calls that need answered[/quote]
For heart attacks they can and should walk a person verbal CPR instructions, They should get information about the location, emergency, and the level of immediate care available.

They will dispatch almost immediately when they confirm the address and the high level emergency and will update the medics with relevant information as necessary while in route.

Again, different response times in my neck of the woods

@MaybeHeIsMyCat ‘ Put a burn under cool water
In 11 years of 999 calls I never once had anyone who had thought to put water on a burn. Not one ’

Really?
Surely everyone sticks a finger burned or scalded whilst cooking under a cold running tap ? Has a bag of peas in the freezer to wrap in a tea towel to apply to burns & sprains?

Think I may be outing mezzelf as ‘ye olde woman who lives up t’ill’.

Amazed to find my niece with three small children in the house did not have a simple first aid kit in the house, or a clue about simple first aid.

Maybe part of the Covid build back recovery plan, a Citizens First Aid training programme? Something we all do for ourselves, loved ones & everyone around us, not leave it to someone else to bother with.

In your situation I would give an aspirin to chew on (unless already on blood thinners), grab an AED if possible and drive - I wouldn't run red lights as you could cause an accident. If he stopped breathing. Stop car and get out and use AED (or do CPR if don't have AED) and ring an ambulance.

@saltinesandcoffeecups - why would you talk someone through CPR if the patient doesn't need CPR?

God its horrific, I'm so sorry you had to go through that OP. Still pre covid my colleagues called 999 after I spontaneously suffered a perforated intestine at work (rare condition I knew nothing about) and was in the worst pain I could possibly have imagined, genuinely horrific pain, so bad I wished I could die just to end it. They were told that as I was breathing and responsive it didn't fulfil criteria for a blue light response and I had to wait for a doctor to call back within the hour to see what kind of response I needed. So my colleagues ended up driving me, a 30 minute drive in a car without great suspension. Worst experience of my life. I think I suffered PTSD! Like you I was shocked, you just assume an ambulance will be there if you need one!

[quote UndertheCedartree]@saltinesandcoffeecups - why would you talk someone through CPR if the patient doesn't need CPR?[/quote]
Clearly just to waste everyone’s time or they’re bored

You got me… in this case they wouldn’t need to do it, but they would ask questions about training level of the caller or anyone present ask about the patient etc. the would not say “oops everyone is busy do you want to wait or do it yourself”

You do whatever feels right at the time.

Sorry you’ve gone through this.

I would drive them to the nearest A&E - give them an aspirin, prop them up in the vehicle and keep them calm. You would need at least one other person for CPR if needed. Ring the hospital and tell them you are on your way, ETA and what the problem is. That's what I would do.
In September my neighbour in his 70s (very fit) suddenly cluthced his chest, lost consciousness and collapsed to the ground in his yard. He was with his wife having lunch and she rushed around to ask us for help. She had already called an ambulance. There were more phone calls. It took 2 hours to arrive. Thankfully he did not die. It was very worrying.
wouldn't depend on an ambulance arriving in time now. I would take the risk of putting the casualty in my car if possible.

I'm very sorry to hear what happened and glad your Dad is ok.

@saltinesandcoffeecups - well, quite - they clearly have time on their hands to just give a random first aid lesson! I have to say I'd never heard of a caller being put on hold before - that's what you used to see on American TV shows!

Omg! Tragically, a colleague of mine had a heart attack completely out of the blue at the age of 28! His brain was deprived of oxygen even though his young wife tried to do CPR immediately and he died in hospital. No one knew he had a heart defect (including him).

So glad your dad is ok!!

I think people are confused about heart attacks/cardiac arrests/chest pain.
On the phone to 999, even if you are convinced someone is having a heart attack, they can only go off the symptoms. So it will be sent through to the ambulance crew as chest pain. They cannot diagnose a heart attack over the phone.

Chest pain can be caused by a lot of things, one of which is a heart attack. A heart attack is where there is a problem with the supply of blood to the cardiac muscle, causing the muscle to become damaged, which causes chest pain and other symptoms such as clamminess, pain in the back or arm, vomiting and reduced consciousness (and lots of others). It can also, but doesn't always, cause the heart to stop or go into a rhythm which is incompatible with life - this is a cardiac arrest and requires CPR. CPR will help to keep blood flowing around the body to keep tissues oxygenated.

A defibrillator will only work if the heart is in one of a couple of specific rhythms. If the heart has stopped completely, the AED won't shock them, and neither would the ambulance crew with their defibrillator.

Regardless of whether you have the defib or not, CPR is vital IF the person is unconscious with ineffective or no respiratory effort and no pulse. If they are unconscious but are breathing normally, they don't need CPR, they need the recovery position and close monitoring to ensure their condition doesn't deteriorate.

@user1486723488

Just to add: burns... Do NOT remove any clothing over the burn as you can peel the skin off beneath, run under cold water for as long as possible, and then slather a very thick paste of bicarb and water over it to pull out the heat. Once cool, and when appropriate, apply honey in quantity to help healing and minimise scarring. (As used for King's Cross fire victims and in many other scenarios.)

Always have bicarb in your kitchen. It costs pennies and can save so much heartache when your child accidentally pulls a pan or cuppa onto themselves, as well as cleaning your fridge etc.

Not so sure about the bicarb application...

<a class="break-all" href="https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2468912219300227&ved=2ahUKEwjHpNzwuoX1AhURecAKHefHB_wQFnoECAwQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0Huw6pe032rxk1tJsh17NC" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2468912219300227&ved=2ahUKEwjHpNzwuoX1AhURecAKHefHB_wQFnoECAwQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0Huw6pe032rxk1tJsh17NC

Sorry you had such a traumatic experience OP. Wishing you and your dad well

@ saltinesandcoffeecups but they can’t diagnose a heart attack over the phone, and if the patient is conscious then a conversation while there are other emergencies on hold just delays everything further.

Fwiw I had to go to hospital by ambulance on Thursday because I was having palpitations and I am in heart failure.

The ambulance arrived within 15 minutes And after assessment I was taken to hospital.

There was a wait for handover, but I can honestly say they weren’t overrun.

I had ecg, bloods, bp, and then cardiology cane to see me and I was discharged within about 2.5 hours. And I’m in London.

@saltinesandcoffeecups

Is this what it's like everywhere atm?

I know the favorite pastime here is to mock US healthcare. But our wait times average 4-9 minutes regardless of the type of call (stubbed toe, strokes, heart attacks, to picking up gran after a fall) for an ambulance.

I honestly can’t imagine counting ambulance wait times in hours.

Yes, because it’s a business and they make money from a ride to the hospital. When my son needed one several years ago, it didn’t occur to me to call one. I drove him in with his brother holding his hand and ran him into ER. If you don’t have insurance you can have a 1k bill for the lift.

What a shock.
I'm glad your Dad is okay.

It’s happened to me twice in the last month.

The first time I witnessed a window cleaner fall 12ft onto concrete. I was put on hold and waited 10 mins for them to answer, only to be told a 2.5 hour wait.

Second time was last night at work, an 85 yr old fell and hit a wall, getting a limb stuck in equipment (changing details) and I waited 15 mins to be answered, then given a 4 hour wait time.

It’s terrifying. 6 years ago my DH had a ‘widow maker’ heart attack at just 51. He was given CPR for 12 mins before a defibrillator arrived on an ambulance. It scares me to think he’d have been dead before they ever answered my call.

@user1486723488

Just to add: burns... Do NOT remove any clothing over the burn as you can peel the skin off beneath, run under cold water for as long as possible, and then slather a very thick paste of bicarb and water over it to pull out the heat. Once cool, and when appropriate, apply honey in quantity to help healing and minimise scarring. (As used for King's Cross fire victims and in many other scenarios.)

Always have bicarb in your kitchen. It costs pennies and can save so much heartache when your child accidentally pulls a pan or cuppa onto themselves, as well as cleaning your fridge etc.

Please don’t do this. This is not current advice. Cool under running water for as long as possible, then wrap the burn in cling film in order to seek medical attention. Do NOT put any pastes on it and especially not honey!

Must have been really scary, and completely understand your “what do I do” reaction.

With regards to the localised defibrillation points, no - you definitely don’t take them with you. They are fixed points and have been installed there for a reason.

Sending best wishes for your dad’s recovery.

You poor thing. I'm glad your Dad is doing ok. The wait times for ambulances are so bad. I work with older people in the community, we provide out of hours response. I was sat with a lovely man a few weeks ago. He'd fallen and had clearly damaged his hip. It took 10+ hours for the ambulance to arrive. I was told when I initially called NOT to ring 999 again for an ETA as they were extremely busy. Fair enough. By hour 6 I thought it was getting ridiculous. I'd managed to make him comfortable enough so he could doze but a few times I thought he'd died on the floor. So I rang back. I was put on hold and thought then how terrifying that would be if a loved one was having a medical emergency. It was only 2 minutes or so but that would feel like hours if you were panicking.

We are now getting to the point of putting elderly people in taxis to A&E (if they are capable and preferably with a family member) if they have upper body injuries because the wait times for an ambulance for something like a broken arm would be ridiculous.

@AlternativePerspective

@ saltinesandcoffeecups but they can’t diagnose a heart attack over the phone, and if the patient is conscious then a conversation while there are other emergencies on hold just delays everything further.

Fwiw I had to go to hospital by ambulance on Thursday because I was having palpitations and I am in heart failure.

The ambulance arrived within 15 minutes And after assessment I was taken to hospital.

There was a wait for handover, but I can honestly say they weren’t overrun.

I had ecg, bloods, bp, and then cardiology cane to see me and I was discharged within about 2.5 hours. And I’m in London.

Of course they can’t diagnose over the phone. What you seem to be missing is that they do ask for a lot of information and give instructions when needed. That generally takes the same amount of time for the ambulance to arrive on scene.

In all my years of calling 911, I don’t think I’ve ever been done with the call before the ambulance has arrived. (Yes I’m that person who averages about 1 call a year for people around me, serious things not the stubbed toe I mentioned earlier)

I’m glad to hear your response was a good one and quick from the sounds of it.

I had this happen to me 15-20 years ago. I was a teenager and my sister a couple years younger woke up in the night, had an episode and completely stopped breathing, went blue, no pulse… I called 999 whilst trying to start cpr, I had no medical or first aid training so no idea what I was doing, and was on hold for a few minutes waiting for them to answer. Longest minutes of my life.

If they stayed on the phone to you when you didn’t need cpr instructions, someone in my situation could be left on hold in the meantime.

@saltinesandcoffeecups

Is this what it's like everywhere atm?

I know the favorite pastime here is to mock US healthcare. But our wait times average 4-9 minutes regardless of the type of call (stubbed toe, strokes, heart attacks, to picking up gran after a fall) for an ambulance.

I honestly can’t imagine counting ambulance wait times in hours.

However, the bill for an ambulance is about $100 per mile in my county. My DD fell and home and dislocated her kneecap. Ambulance came and took her 11 miles to the nearest hospital -- bill $1100 and that is just for the ride - no treatment in transit.

Well neither can I or the rest of us who are in the UK. It's not normally like this

Sadly it is. This is common now. The waiting time is frightening. I'm not at all surprised to hear of that waiting time.

Request the fire service

The Fire Service won't come out for a medical matter. They'll refer you straight back to ambulance