Nephew is dog phobic. Visiting dilemma

[DaughterOfEvening]

I’ve kept this quite vague as my SIL is on here. DB has asked to come and visit us with their children, all three over 6. We don’t live close by, a few hours drive. We have room for them to stay. They have not yet visited our house as we moved during lockdown. Their eldest is 12 and has always been dog phobic (will scream, cry, run away)
Phone call today from DB asking for detailed layout of the house and where the dogs will be as “Billy” won’t be in the same room as a dog. We have two very lazy dogs who sleep for 20+ hours a day. The dogs are not barkers or jumpers.

I have reassured him that neither dog will be wandering around and that they will stay on their respective beds in one room downstairs. The dogs have never been upstairs. Ever.
Brother has said that it’s not enough, that’s it’s nothing personal. He’s just not willing to put Billy under any stress.
I’m not sure if he’s expecting me to shut the dogs outside but if he asked this then my polite response would be oh dear, you have long drive back then.
Should I be more accommodating?

Bro should not be contemplating taking a child who doesn't like dogs into a house with dogs.

I don't think a dislike or phobia of dogs needs to be gotten over. I can't stand dogs and have managed to avoid them close up my entire life. I will not "get over it", and I'm sick of people (on here. It doesn't happen in real life) expecting people who don't like dogs to get used to dogs. Why should we? The country has gone mad. Dogs in shops, restaurants, absolutely gross. So unhygienic. I can't wait for the push back. Dogs in houses is revolting.

The kid is correct on wanting to avoid dogs.

It's a shame you have dogs. They ruin relationships.

@Teenylittlefella

DB is making the phobia worse by enabling avoidance. Dnephew probably needs professional help by now.

Avoidance perpetuates and exacerbates fear.
Buy him this book

Anxious Kids, Anxious Parents: 7 Ways to Stop the Worry Cycle and Raise Courageous and Independent Children ]]

I have been there and bought the t-shirt and would love to be able to do things differently. The only way to tackle fear is by normalising, anticipation, and taking action. Not by trying to bend the whole world around your child's fear.

Dogs bite, maim, maul, infect. It is perfectly reasonable to be fearful. It is stupid to NOT consider animals with big teeth potentially seriously dangerous. It's crazy to me that as a society, we ignore our instincts around predatory, carnivorous animals, even welcoming them into our homes and exposing our children to them.

If at 12 years old a boy is crying like that about a dog, then he needs serious therapy. They are coming to your house. If your DB won't get his son some help, then he has no rights to tell you where to keep your dog. He sounds like a CFer and he should be getting his son the serious help he needs, not enabling it.

Don't you dare consider shutting the dogs outside. YANBU.

No-one has to like dogs, but it's a bit ridiculous to act as though it's a virtue to be terrified of them. For the boy's own benefit, he needs help getting to the point that he can be in the same room as a calm, well-behaved dog without suffering genuine distress.

OP, your brother shouldn't be dictating how you run your own house. He invited his family over to your home knowing that you have dogs. He's being unreasonable to expect you to shut the dogs away (if that is what he expects), unless they become overly excited by the presence of guests. If they do begin to jump, bark, etc., then I would find a way to keep them away from the children. Otherwise, your nephew can just stay out of the room where the dogs' beds are.

My daughter is 14 and also have a fear of dogs, her counsellor explained it to me this way: she asked what animal I am afraid of I replied snakes, she then pointed out what if I was expected to sit in a room with a snake - it's OK the snake is trained and won't bite me it will just sit on its spot she asked how that would make me feel?
I wouldn't do it.
I'm a dog lover but I understand my daughters feelings. She isn't keen on being terrified of dogs either.
We don't expect people to accommodate her fear, but there is no way in hell I'll put her in a situation where she is terrified. Thankfully for us most people we know are extremely caring and accommodating but if not we simply don't go

Maybe rather than wanting to control you your brother wants reassurance that you are taking his son's phobia seriously and that the dog's really will be kept in their room? Because sometimes people say that they understand and then it's "oh this is silly, it's time for Billy to conquer his fears" or "I only let them out for a minute" or "oh but they are missing their mummy" and bam, dogs round your ankles.

@Porcupineintherough

Maybe rather than wanting to control you your brother wants reassurance that you are taking his son's phobia seriously and that the dog's really will be kept in their room? Because sometimes people say that they understand and then it's "oh this is silly, it's time for Billy to conquer his fears" or "I only let them out for a minute" or "oh but they are missing their mummy" and bam, dogs round your ankles.

I think it's bloody clear the OP is taking her nephews phobia much more seriously than his own father. It certainly sounds like her brother is being controlling. Anyone with even half a brain cell wouldn't put their child in this situation if they cared even a little bit for their emotional wellbeing.

Dogs Trump people every single time. Put the boy in the garden, he'll be fine.

Your DB sounds like a bit of a knob tbh. I was petrified of dogs until my twenties and it's absolutely crippling. PP are right, there's dogs everywhere, which only made it worse and I never saw myself "getting over it". Your DB is being really quite insensitive, he should realise that he's putting his DS in a situation that'll only make it worse. My parents forced me to go to peoples houses where there were dogs and all it did was traumatise me. I think introducing him to your dogs might be a great way to help his fear, the worst is dogs who jump and bark so if they're not like this then maybe give it a go. You could even speak to your DN and ask him how he feels about it? He's probably terrified at the thought.

I'm in two minds about this one. On the one hand it's your house and your dog and you're well within your rights to say "what s shame, here's the Premier Inn". But it depends how much you want to see your family I guess. If they live far enough away that staying over is necessary, and you have dogs do would have issues being away from home a lot, I don't suppose you see them often. Maybe that suits you. But if you want to maintain the relationship then a compromise is needed - which tbh it sounds like you've offered so I think you should clarify what he actually wants you to do beyond that.

I am scared witless of dogs. I wouldn't xall it a phobia because its not an irrational fear - domestic dogs can and do kill adults and children. I don't consider myself to have a phobia of men because I keep my keys in my hand when I am walking at night and a man falls into step behind me. Men can and do rape and kill women. And yes I know it is rare and unlikely in both cases, but crucially, it would only have to be the once.

My sister who I see very rarely got a dog just before lockdown. Due to LD and my sister and her family being pretty isolated in any case, the dog is really poorly socialised and incredibly territorial in the house - barks, snarls and tries to lunge at visitors as they come in, will settle down after a while but then the second you leave or enter a room it all starts again. It's a lab so not small. I have young children under 5 who are not used to dogs and in the moment may not react appropriately to de-escalate the situation. Besides being shit scared myself. So when we visited for the first time in about 3 years, after a terrifying "greeting" from the dog as we arrived, I asked my sister if she could keep her in the (large) kitchen and garden while we were there. And she agreed because she loves me and my kids and wants us to be comfortable in her home. I was grateful and sent some treats for the dog as a thank you when we got home.

The arch dog lovers here obviously think anyone not happy with close proximity to dogs can just be jettisoned as unworthy of contact but most people have a more nuanced approach to their family relationships.

I’m going to say come or don’t come. We have made arrangements to accommodate Billy and if it’s not acceptable then we will see you another time

That’s a really good response

@Queeen

Bro should not be contemplating taking a child who doesn't like dogs into a house with dogs.

I don't think a dislike or phobia of dogs needs to be gotten over. I can't stand dogs and have managed to avoid them close up my entire life. I will not "get over it", and I'm sick of people (on here. It doesn't happen in real life) expecting people who don't like dogs to get used to dogs. Why should we? The country has gone mad. Dogs in shops, restaurants, absolutely gross. So unhygienic. I can't wait for the push back. Dogs in houses is revolting.

The kid is correct on wanting to avoid dogs.

It's a shame you have dogs. They ruin relationships.

Hysterical

@PferdeMerde

The mn response will probably be let your precious fur babies jump all over him.

But the OP has stated the dogs don't jump? Are you expecting her to actively encourage them to start jumping?

I am not a dog lover and think people come before animals. However, if you are visiting someone with dogs you have to accept that they have them So you either don't go, or you come to some sort of reasonable accommodation. I would be ok if I knew for definite that they wouldn't jump up at me or lick me. But I would only do a short visit, I wouldn't stay overnight.

As for getting help with phobias, kids wouldn't have phobias of dogs if their owners trained them properly and didn't let dogs jump up at them. I would suggest that it is much easier to train a dog properly than get help from the NHS for phobias.

If I put my dog outside, she'd be barking to come in, that not going to happen.

It's sad Billy has a phobia, but unfortunately that means he can't visit your house. If he was scared of spiders, would they take him too the spider section in a zoo? No, so don't bring him to your house.

I don’t see how you could be more accommodating to be honest, not without it negatively affecting your dogs anyway. Tell your DB that, until Billy gets over his fear of dogs, them visiting for more than a few hours at a time just won’t work.

@JuergenSchwarzwald

I am not a dog lover and think people come before animals. However, if you are visiting someone with dogs you have to accept that they have them So you either don't go, or you come to some sort of reasonable accommodation. I would be ok if I knew for definite that they wouldn't jump up at me or lick me. But I would only do a short visit, I wouldn't stay overnight.

As for getting help with phobias, kids wouldn't have phobias of dogs if their owners trained them properly and didn't let dogs jump up at them. I would suggest that it is much easier to train a dog properly than get help from the NHS for phobias.

I have a friend with two children, both dog phobic and have never had a dog jump up at them.

I think the youngest feeds off the older one.

I think your "if owners trained them properly"' children wouldn't have phobias is not necessarily true.

What an utter wimp of a child, not helped by his parents.
It isn't practical for them to stay and YANBU.

OP do you not want a good relationship with your nephew/brother? Ultimately it comes down to what is more important to you - family or animals?!

@Movingsoon21

OP do you not want a good relationship with your nephew/brother? Ultimately it comes down to what is more important to you - family or animals?!

Of course she wants a good relationship with her nephew or she wouldn't be posting looking for advice.

One could ask if the child's father wants a good relationship with his son, because it seems to me he is putting looking at his sisters house above his sons phobia.

My in-laws keep their dog in the kitchen when we visit.

If the child is phobic yes you should be more accommodative accept that the child will not be able to come.

If the boys phobia is that bad, this visit isn't going to work out. They need to stay elsewhere and come to visit you briefly, otherwise everyone's going to get wound up and pissed off because the boy is frightened of dogs which incidentally his parents should be getting him help for

I can't quite work out what your brother wants from you ? If he's saying that the dogs can't be seen by Billy at all than that's going to be so stressful to manage for everyone, you included. I also don't understand how the child survives walking down the street if he can't see a dog. I think the only thing you can do is suggest that the dogs hangout in a different room but you can't hide the dogs all day....

@Movingsoon21

OP do you not want a good relationship with your nephew/brother? Ultimately it comes down to what is more important to you - family or animals?!

So what do you suggest then?