Nephew is dog phobic. Visiting dilemma

[DaughterOfEvening]

I’ve kept this quite vague as my SIL is on here. DB has asked to come and visit us with their children, all three over 6. We don’t live close by, a few hours drive. We have room for them to stay. They have not yet visited our house as we moved during lockdown. Their eldest is 12 and has always been dog phobic (will scream, cry, run away)
Phone call today from DB asking for detailed layout of the house and where the dogs will be as “Billy” won’t be in the same room as a dog. We have two very lazy dogs who sleep for 20+ hours a day. The dogs are not barkers or jumpers.

I have reassured him that neither dog will be wandering around and that they will stay on their respective beds in one room downstairs. The dogs have never been upstairs. Ever.
Brother has said that it’s not enough, that’s it’s nothing personal. He’s just not willing to put Billy under any stress.
I’m not sure if he’s expecting me to shut the dogs outside but if he asked this then my polite response would be oh dear, you have long drive back then.
Should I be more accommodating?

This isn’t an essential visit & could take place elsewhere if DB was more interested in seeing the OP, rather than having a nosey at her new house.

As such, if Billy is too uncomfortable to be in the house with dogs - even if he doesn’t see them - then his parents shouldn’t force him to come. DB could visit with the other children whilst Billy stays home with SIL, for example.

The only concession that I would consider is to keep the door shut to the room the dogs are in. If they are comfy in their beds, it shouldn’t bother them but may be more reassuring for Billy. I would also suggest that Billy & one parent stay at a local hotel or B&B to give him somewhere to de-stress.

I have a dog phobia and the only time I can visit a house with a dog is when I truly trust the owner that they will keep their dog from coming near me and won’t try to ‘cure’ me. It is definitely more about the owner than tne dog.

I have had this phobia for over forty years and have tried multiple strategies and techniques without success.

[quote 5zeds]**@AllThingsServeTheBeam* There is no way I'd send my dog to kennels. He would be out of his mind with stress.* so train your dog so he can cope with kennels and find a kennels that suits you and is willing to help you train him. Even better OP could offer to help DN with his phobia. Her old saggy dogs sound ideal.[/quote]
Erm. No? Why should I? They can stop at a premier in. Ffs. The entitlement of people.

Just tell him to stay in an air b n b , job sorted.

Reflecting on the conversation with DB I feel that it’s about control. He kept saying but what about this? That?
I did feel slightly bullied and the conversation ended with him saying how upset he was as I’m not taking Billy’s fears seriously. The very fact that I’m asking for input from Mumsnetters at this time of night should be an indication of my concern. I will worry about this all night and probably ring him tomorrow to try and placate. I won’t speak to our parents as they are both unwell but I know he will complain to them.

Why placate your brother? It’s a Him-problem to solve. Opt out :)

‘Of course I take your child’s phobias seriously, I understand why your visit will be brief, no worries! Apparently the ChainHotel is pretty nice. See you soon, bye!’

@DaughterOfEvening

Reflecting on the conversation with DB I feel that it’s about control. He kept saying but what about this? That? I did feel slightly bullied and the conversation ended with him saying how upset he was as I’m not taking Billy’s fears seriously. The very fact that I’m asking for input from Mumsnetters at this time of night should be an indication of my concern. I will worry about this all night and probably ring him tomorrow to try and placate. I won’t speak to our parents as they are both unwell but I know he will complain to them.

Your DB is being totally unreasonable here. He is not taking his own child's fears seriously. His child's phobia is his problem, not yours.

@5zeds

Personally d lock the dog in one room or put them in kennels. Children come first for me.

Sticking my dogs in a room away from me would be very distressing for them. Probably more so than for a human - because they can’t understand what is happening and would get frantic and incredibly distressed, knowing I am in the house but they can’t be near me.

Neither of my dogs have ever gone to kennels and they never will. They are looked after by friends when I’m away

If we have visitors who don’t like dogs, mine are put on a lead and kept by my side.

@GreensQueen22

I’m thinking about leaving my husband, we’ve been married 11 years and have two children. I think really I’ve just out grown him. I was attracted to him for many reasons but mainly I knew he wouldn’t abuse me or be unfaithful - he was safe. And I’d had a history of bad relationships. Looking back I probably over looked some key things which were missing in our relationship. I’m now too wise and unwilling to do. He’s never been able to talk about his emotions, his desires, worries, wants or even just what makes him happy. He never tells me he loves me, kisses me, touches me or shoes he cares! He does rub my feet at night and always brings this up when I complain. But really he can’t talk about anything other than childcare or maybe DIY with me. He doesn’t talk to his friends and has minimal contact with family. He also never comes to bed or wakes at the same time as me, something that’s bothered me for 11 years. Ive tried in the past to encourage compromise eg. coming to bed with me 1 night a week. It’s never worked, he’s not really interested. He now doesn’t want sex and I’m at the end of the line trying to hold things together. He leaves also finance, admin, arranging diy, children’s clubs, children’s clothes, school stuff, bills, pensions, cars to me. I’ve always been the main earner and for the last 18 months he’s been unemployed. During his time unemployed he struggled to buy shopping on a regular basis and never really got into a routine. He can cook though if I plan the meals. He has a job now and will start in January. I’ve been diagnosed with anemia and have been struggling with fatigue and I think feeling low. It’s at times like this when I feel so alone. I feel tearful and so in need of support. My girls cuddle me when I’m upset he doesn’t seem to notice or care. His mum is ill and in a care home. She’s been in the home almost a year and he’s visited a handful of times. He ever talks about her and rarely contacts his brother. To be honest his family are not communicators and they all bitch about each other. He doesn’t dislike them it’s just a dysfunctional relationship - although he won’t admit it. I feel bad leaving cause I don’t really know how he feels. He’s always struggled to show he cared and in the past has forgotten or joy bothered with my birthday or Christmas presents, recently I’ve insisted he buys me even just a card or a small thing just to set an example to our children. He’s managed to do this but I always dread birthdays as I know I’ll ultimately get nothing and have to put a brave face on. Now that I’ve written this I feel it’s obvious but I’ve had to give up. We’ve had a bit of counselling in the past. It was then I realised that he genuinely couldn’t talk about his feelings. I thought he just refused to talk to annoy me but he told the counsellor he didn’t know what to say. Is it fair to leave him?

You need to post this on a thread of your own

DB is making the phobia worse by enabling avoidance. Dnephew probably needs professional help by now.

Avoidance perpetuates and exacerbates fear.
Buy him this book

Anxious Kids, Anxious Parents: 7 Ways to Stop the Worry Cycle and Raise Courageous and Independent Children www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0757317626/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_glt_fabc_8DE5NB7HVKZDASSK9Z9H?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

I have been there and bought the t-shirt and would love to be able to do things differently. The only way to tackle fear is by normalising, anticipation, and taking action. Not by trying to bend the whole world around your child's fear.

Avoidance of dogs is perfectly possible unless of course you have inconsiderate owners who believe that everyone loves dogs and allow them to roam freely like people

I don’t know where you live, but round here it’s almost impossible to go out on foot and not to encounter dogs. All on leads.there are five in my street alone.

A few years ago I was out with my dog (on lead) and a child started screaming. She was on the other side of the street and her parent tried to tell me off for walking my dog on a street with a school in it. I told her not to be so ridiculous, as I live in the street and my dog was fully under my control.

But it just shows how frightened dogs can make some people even when they pose zero risk.

@DaughterOfEvening

Reflecting on the conversation with DB I feel that it’s about control. He kept saying but what about this? That? I did feel slightly bullied and the conversation ended with him saying how upset he was as I’m not taking Billy’s fears seriously. The very fact that I’m asking for input from Mumsnetters at this time of night should be an indication of my concern. I will worry about this all night and probably ring him tomorrow to try and placate. I won’t speak to our parents as they are both unwell but I know he will complain to them.

Do not let him try and control you in your own home.

"DB, I am more than happy to have you visit but I will not be shutting my dogs outside. I have told you what I am prepared to do (ensure the dogs stay in their room/keep them out of communal spaces/don't allow them upstairs etc) but if that is not enough for you to feel it is safe for Billy to visit then I respect your decision as his parent that it is not safe for Billy to visit. If that means you are unable to visit as a family then this would be very disappointing but I understand that you must put Billy's needs first, and if my house isn't safe enough for him then you will either need to make alternative arrangements or we will have to postpone your visit"

@DaughterOfEvening

Reflecting on the conversation with DB I feel that it’s about control. He kept saying but what about this? That? I did feel slightly bullied and the conversation ended with him saying how upset he was as I’m not taking Billy’s fears seriously. The very fact that I’m asking for input from Mumsnetters at this time of night should be an indication of my concern. I will worry about this all night and probably ring him tomorrow to try and placate. I won’t speak to our parents as they are both unwell but I know he will complain to them.

It does sound like he is trying to control you.

You’ve told him the dogs won’t be in the room with his kid but they will be in the house. Because that’s where they live.

If that isn’t enough for him, then he shouldn’t bring his kid.

Don’t let him bully you. Is he jealous?

@GreensQueen22

I’m thinking about leaving my husband, we’ve been married 11 years and have two children. I think really I’ve just out grown him. I was attracted to him for many reasons but mainly I knew he wouldn’t abuse me or be unfaithful - he was safe. And I’d had a history of bad relationships. Looking back I probably over looked some key things which were missing in our relationship. I’m now too wise and unwilling to do. He’s never been able to talk about his emotions, his desires, worries, wants or even just what makes him happy. He never tells me he loves me, kisses me, touches me or shoes he cares! He does rub my feet at night and always brings this up when I complain. But really he can’t talk about anything other than childcare or maybe DIY with me. He doesn’t talk to his friends and has minimal contact with family. He also never comes to bed or wakes at the same time as me, something that’s bothered me for 11 years. Ive tried in the past to encourage compromise eg. coming to bed with me 1 night a week. It’s never worked, he’s not really interested. He now doesn’t want sex and I’m at the end of the line trying to hold things together. He leaves also finance, admin, arranging diy, children’s clubs, children’s clothes, school stuff, bills, pensions, cars to me. I’ve always been the main earner and for the last 18 months he’s been unemployed. During his time unemployed he struggled to buy shopping on a regular basis and never really got into a routine. He can cook though if I plan the meals. He has a job now and will start in January. I’ve been diagnosed with anemia and have been struggling with fatigue and I think feeling low. It’s at times like this when I feel so alone. I feel tearful and so in need of support. My girls cuddle me when I’m upset he doesn’t seem to notice or care. His mum is ill and in a care home. She’s been in the home almost a year and he’s visited a handful of times. He ever talks about her and rarely contacts his brother. To be honest his family are not communicators and they all bitch about each other. He doesn’t dislike them it’s just a dysfunctional relationship - although he won’t admit it. I feel bad leaving cause I don’t really know how he feels. He’s always struggled to show he cared and in the past has forgotten or joy bothered with my birthday or Christmas presents, recently I’ve insisted he buys me even just a card or a small thing just to set an example to our children. He’s managed to do this but I always dread birthdays as I know I’ll ultimately get nothing and have to put a brave face on. Now that I’ve written this I feel it’s obvious but I’ve had to give up. We’ve had a bit of counselling in the past. It was then I realised that he genuinely couldn’t talk about his feelings. I thought he just refused to talk to annoy me but he told the counsellor he didn’t know what to say. Is it fair to leave him?

what breed is your husband ?

Good grief! In understand phobias very well, amd dog phobias in kids usually stem from something terrible having happened. Your brother is being both a dick to you and an utter idiot. Your dogs would be the perfect dogs to help aid Billy with his phobia. Being around someone who is calm, not neurotic and bossy would too. Something tells me that three days with you and your dogs without your brother would make a great change.

Sorry but this thread is bonkers.

They know you have dogs and want to come and visit but want to dictate to you what you have to do with your dogs?

So....... they are going to stress you out, stress their neurotic child out and stress themselves out and also stress your dogs out

I think I have that covered.. you, them, their child, and your dogs.

Tell them to stay in an hotel and when they come to visit, you will keep the dogs out of the way for the time they are there.
Before they arrive take your dogs for a long walk so they will be OK.

Job done

Definitely about control and about tarnishing and deflecting the joy of visiting you in your new home.

Avoid the drama and do as po suggested by always circling back to ‘how do you see the visit DB?’

Tbh, I think he has more or less got what he wants which is to upset you about your home and make you feel it isn’t good enough for him.

How possible is delaying the visit or changing location? Has anyone you have hung out with had a positive LFT?

I am also dog phobic. Espically little dogs who can chase me. Mum said it was a dog had jumped up me as a child. I was doing fine and at a brownie camp (I was the leader) and man let a dog off the lead. We said you need to keep it on the lead as children are present and he just laughed and went oh well. I got spooked again as the dog could just run. When I met my husband he had a dog and I was terrified. His mum put a table between me and dog. After a while I got used to her and I could walk her and brush her.

I think it depends how scared he is. Maybe ask if he would like to be introduced. You could so on a lead. If not then could they stay in a room with the door shut while guests are present. I know not ideal but at least you will get to see family and dogs will be able to stay at home.

What kind of dogs are they?

@Ritasueandbobtoo9

I’m sorry, dogs are animals. Why shouldn’t you accommodate your family and be empathetic???

But what is OPmeant to actually do? The dogs live there.

The whole point of the visit is for them to see our new home. He ASKED to visit. And seemed excited as we haven’t seen each other for a few months.

I must admit I was surprised that he wanted to visit and maybe I hoped that Billy had been helped to overcome his phobia.
Even if they don’t stay over they want to come to see the house… that’s the point!

Re covid:
He knows that we are very risk averse regarding covid due to our line of work. We both wfh and the household routinely tests as per current advice. So I doubt that he’s trying to avoid the visit. I know he wants to have a good look around the house and area as he’s considering a change of lifestyle too.
It’s dogtastic round here so that’s going to be interesting for Billy.
We won’t be meeting them outside as the weather forecast is horrible and I’m not up for pub/cafe/restaurant visit tbh.
I’m going to say come or don’t come. We have made arrangements to accommodate Billy and if it’s not acceptable then we will see you another time.

Billy should get some much needed therapy.

What does the 12 year old Billy do in every day life? If he's out a walk and sees a dog does he run screaming down the road?
Sounds like your DB has made no effort to address the issue but expects everyone to accommodate Billy.
He's a cheeky git, invites himself
and thinks he can dictate how you live.