Nephew is dog phobic. Visiting dilemma

[DaughterOfEvening]

I’ve kept this quite vague as my SIL is on here. DB has asked to come and visit us with their children, all three over 6. We don’t live close by, a few hours drive. We have room for them to stay. They have not yet visited our house as we moved during lockdown. Their eldest is 12 and has always been dog phobic (will scream, cry, run away)
Phone call today from DB asking for detailed layout of the house and where the dogs will be as “Billy” won’t be in the same room as a dog. We have two very lazy dogs who sleep for 20+ hours a day. The dogs are not barkers or jumpers.

I have reassured him that neither dog will be wandering around and that they will stay on their respective beds in one room downstairs. The dogs have never been upstairs. Ever.
Brother has said that it’s not enough, that’s it’s nothing personal. He’s just not willing to put Billy under any stress.
I’m not sure if he’s expecting me to shut the dogs outside but if he asked this then my polite response would be oh dear, you have long drive back then.
Should I be more accommodating?

@DaughterOfEvening

DB has messaged to say that they won’t be coming as it’s too much for Billy (and him) I could have done without the night of soul searching and worry that I hadn’t been sufficiently accommodating or mindful of Billy’s phobia. I feel that I HAVE been now, given the conversation with DB this morning.

He invited himself, huffed and puffed about the dogs, skirting around the fact that the only way that Billy would be able to visit is if I didn’t have dogs at all.
I could not have done any more.

The layout of the house is such that Billy would not need to visit the part where the dogs would be. This was unacceptable in DB’s opinion.
At our previous home the dogs were shut behind a babygate in a utility area when they visited. Many times I had found Billy standing next to the babygate watching the dogs asleep on their beds and found this strange. Make if this what you will.

Sounds like a sensible kid who wants to get over his phobia. DD was phobic for a while after being attacked by a dog. She desperately wanted not to be so we worked hard to support her taking things at her pace and bump starting things with some therapy.

Initially she couldn't be in the same house or even within sight of a dog outside, but then got so dogs on leads were just a bit scary, rather than full on panic inducing and inside being at the other side of a babygate watching a calm / sleeping dog was pleasurable.

Except OP wasn’t happy To meet them elsewhere

Well, the whole point of the visit (suggested by the brother) was for the brother and his family to come and see OP's new home. Suggesting that they meet elsewhere defeats the purpose of the visit.

OP's brother knew about the dogs and still suggested the visit. Only later did he start applying pressure and guilt about her dogs. He's the problem.

Nope, shutting the door would work

And where has OP said she wouldn’t be shutting the door?

Answer: nowhere.

You decided that none of her solutions were good enough, that the mere thought of the dogs getting out was too traumatic. And yet, it turns out that Billy enjoys seeing the dogs. So, clearly no issue at all with them being in their beds, in a room, down a corridor in a different part of the house.

perhaps the onus is on the brother to provide the stair gate

So the kid can hang over it and stare at the dogs, like he used to do?
Sounds like Billy isn’t as petrified of the dogs as his Dad is desirous of wanting to exert control over his sister. And yes, if Dad insists on a stair gate it’s stating 5he obvious 5hat he should fork out for it.

Yanbu. It’s your house and they have invited themselves. If you had invited them then I think that would be different.
Me and my children don’t like dogs that much. I actively avoid inviting myself to people’s houses who have dogs. It’s not worth the hassle.

@DaughterOfEvening

DB has messaged to say that they won’t be coming as it’s too much for Billy (and him) I could have done without the night of soul searching and worry that I hadn’t been sufficiently accommodating or mindful of Billy’s phobia. I feel that I HAVE been now, given the conversation with DB this morning.

He invited himself, huffed and puffed about the dogs, skirting around the fact that the only way that Billy would be able to visit is if I didn’t have dogs at all.
I could not have done any more.

The layout of the house is such that Billy would not need to visit the part where the dogs would be. This was unacceptable in DB’s opinion.
At our previous home the dogs were shut behind a babygate in a utility area when they visited. Many times I had found Billy standing next to the babygate watching the dogs asleep on their beds and found this strange. Make if this what you will.

Your brother's a twat. I suspect his wife is as well and will give him an earful if everyone doesn't provide over-the-top catering for a child who isn't as afraid of your dogs as they're making out by the sound of it. Plus, there's no need at all for him to see them in their section of the house.

You've been beyond reasonable, OP. Refuse to engage on it any further other than, 'Oh, what a shame. Maybe in the new year.'

@BrightYellowDaffodil why the hell should she? It’s OP’s house, and the dogs live there. If the DB wants to visit, he does it on OP’s terms because it’s her house. because one of the children in her family has a phobia??? Is her plan to just never have her BROTHER and his children over because her dogs are too precious to ever be inconvenienced? Have you even heard of inclusion? I honestly despair at people’s attitudes to disability and difference I read on here. It’s his bloody AUNT. Imagine how fucking few homes he is safe to visit.

To all those posters suggesting kennels do you realise what time of year it is? The cost will be a lot higher if there are even any spaces. I don't have a dog but I know a local cattery also has a 7 day minimum stay policy. Hell will freeze over before I use a cattery but even if I did there's no way he'd be going in for 7 nights for a one night visit!

[quote 5zeds]**@BrightYellowDaffodil* why the hell should she? It’s OP’s house, and the dogs live there. If the DB wants to visit, he does it on OP’s terms because it’s her house.* because one of the children in her family has a phobia??? Is her plan to just never have her BROTHER and his children over because her dogs are too precious to ever be inconvenienced? Have you even heard of inclusion? I honestly despair at people’s attitudes to disability and difference I read on here. It’s his bloody AUNT. Imagine how fucking few homes he is safe to visit.[/quote]
So what do you suggest?

It’s his bloody AUNT. Imagine how fucking few homes he is safe to visit

But his aunt’s home is not one of them because she has dogs.

Apart from getting rid of her dogs because her nephew may visit occasionally, what is the solution?

@5zeds - a phobia is not a disability. They can be treated whereas disabilities cannot usually. This is not an issue of differences which cannot be addressed. And there is clearly more here than meet the eye if the nephew has been able to look at the dogs and be near them in the past.

Billy standing by the dogs watching them doesn’t sound like a phobia, it doesn’t even sound like a particular fear.

This is a DB manufactured issue, and it’s either a dynamic the son is using as an attention getter or performance parenting by his dad

Some parents WANT their kids to be needy/vulnerable as it plays to their valiant saviour role

It gets attention for them, it’s attention seeking by proxy

@DaughterOfEvening you’ve done nothing wrong, your brother really is an idiot. Shrug it off. I reckon your nephew will come round and see you when he’s older and out from the influence of his crap dad.

[quote Wheresmywoolyjumpers]@5zeds - a phobia is not a disability. They can be treated whereas disabilities cannot usually. This is not an issue of differences which cannot be addressed. And there is clearly more here than meet the eye if the nephew has been able to look at the dogs and be near them in the past.[/quote]
I wondered that! I have (mild) agoraphobia and I never thought of it as a disability

I’ve more or less overcome it now, covid has helped bizarrely

[quote 5zeds]**@BrightYellowDaffodil* why the hell should she? It’s OP’s house, and the dogs live there. If the DB wants to visit, he does it on OP’s terms because it’s her house.* because one of the children in her family has a phobia??? Is her plan to just never have her BROTHER and his children over because her dogs are too precious to ever be inconvenienced? Have you even heard of inclusion? I honestly despair at people’s attitudes to disability and difference I read on here. It’s his bloody AUNT. Imagine how fucking few homes he is safe to visit.[/quote]
No, her plan is that if her brother wants to see her house, he doesn't bring his child.

And do give over with the inclusion nonsense.

Billy standing by the dogs watching them doesn’t sound like a phobia, it doesn’t even sound like a particular fear.

I agree. I think maybe someone else is dog phobic but afraid to admit it.

[quote 5zeds]**@BrightYellowDaffodil* why the hell should she? It’s OP’s house, and the dogs live there. If the DB wants to visit, he does it on OP’s terms because it’s her house.* because one of the children in her family has a phobia??? Is her plan to just never have her BROTHER and his children over because her dogs are too precious to ever be inconvenienced? Have you even heard of inclusion? I honestly despair at people’s attitudes to disability and difference I read on here. It’s his bloody AUNT. Imagine how fucking few homes he is safe to visit.[/quote]
@5zeds Then the boy needs to get help then, so he can visit homes. It's unfortunate he has a phobia, but that's not the problem of the OP, and it shouldn't be up to her to solve it, especially when she has tried very hard and nothing is good enough for her brother. It's up to her brother to solve it, since it's his son. It's not the aunt's fault. Don't go putting the blame and responsibility onto the aunt! If the boy's parents had got him help, it's doubtful he would be in the situation, at least to the extent he is, now. Why is it always someone else's fault and responsibility?

@MzHz

Billy standing by the dogs watching them doesn’t sound like a phobia, it doesn’t even sound like a particular fear.

This is a DB manufactured issue, and it’s either a dynamic the son is using as an attention getter or performance parenting by his dad

Some parents WANT their kids to be needy/vulnerable as it plays to their valiant saviour role

It gets attention for them, it’s attention seeking by proxy

@DaughterOfEvening you’ve done nothing wrong, your brother really is an idiot. Shrug it off. I reckon your nephew will come round and see you when he’s older and out from the influence of his crap dad.

Yep, I was thinking it's mainly the brother forcing the phobia on the boy, and I thought of 'by proxy'. The wording the brother used in the texts show it's about attention, power and control.

I really do wonder now that the boy even has the phobia.

@mycatisannoying

What an utter wimp of a child, not helped by his parents. It isn't practical for them to stay and YANBU.

What a total twat of a post.

@RampantIvy

Billy standing by the dogs watching them doesn’t sound like a phobia, it doesn’t even sound like a particular fear.

I agree. I think maybe someone else is dog phobic but afraid to admit it.

Sounds like he is afraid, probably because he was when he was little, and now thinks he should get used to being near them - like he's trying to do his own version of aversion therapy. But his father is absolutely determined to keep him as the little boy scared of dogs.

DP got over his wariness of dogs (he grew up with only working and guard dogs where he lived) from watching them and learning their body language. It made them more predictable and understandable - just as watching snoring Greyhounds/any other breed would help somebody who has only ever seen barking, snarling animals, or if he's grown up with a father launching in and 'rescuing' him or panicking him with a STAY AWAY FROM THE DOG IT'LL BITE YOU. Because they're calm and not doing the anticipated attacking.

No, is the short answer. You've provided an adequate solution. Of course, Billy must stay out of the designated dog room. That's DB's responsibility not yours.

If it's not enough then DB will have to find another; take Billy upstairs, out to the car, out for a walk. But if DB really cares about Billy he will drop the big drama and make this in an opportunity for billy to get used to being in the same building as two silent dogs out of sight.

Put some pictures of them around the room Billy will be in, then say no more about them. No drama no fuss, no discussion or comment about dogs. A non-event.

Phobias can be disabling, or part of a disability. But I wasn’t really trying to say the child was disabled (though he may be) what I was saying is that I would expect people to try and accommodate his needs rather than excluding him or expecting him to suddenly not have this issue. I’d expect family of all people to be helpful and loving towards this child. While it isn’t the OPs “job” to cure him or help him I do think most sibling should focus on what they could do rather than how difficult it is for them.

@5zeds

Phobias can be disabling, or part of a disability. But I wasn’t really trying to say the child was disabled (though he may be) what I was saying is that I would expect people to try and accommodate his needs rather than excluding him or expecting him to suddenly not have this issue. I’d expect family of all people to be helpful and loving towards this child. While it isn’t the OPs “job” to cure him or help him I do think most sibling should focus on what they could do rather than how difficult it is for them.

The OP has put forward a number of solutions, none of which are acceptable to the OP's brother.

I'm not sure what else you think she should - or could - do.

@RampantIvy

Billy standing by the dogs watching them doesn’t sound like a phobia, it doesn’t even sound like a particular fear.

I agree. I think maybe someone else is dog phobic but afraid to admit it.

But I thought the OP said there was a stairgate in the way?

If you know the dogs can't get to you, it's very different. But you know if you spend time in a house they are going to get out to you sometime. A two hour visit is one thing, a few days quite another.

I wasn’t really trying to say the child was disabled (though he may be) what I was saying is that I would expect people to try and accommodate his needs rather than excluding him or expecting him to suddenly not have this issue

Yes in most cases that would be the case, but not where dogs are concerned. Fur babies always come first.

However, I do think if you want to visit someone with dogs you either keep your visit short - or you meet elsewhere. You can't expect to stay there when it's the dogs' home.

I think she should put her dog in kennels, lock it away in a way that causes no angst, and talk to her brother. Perhaps it’s all bullshit an db just doesn’t want to come, perhaps there are bigger issues, perhaps db is the anxious one, who knows? I don’t think this is a big ask, though I have very disabled son so perhaps “scared of dogs” doesn’t really seem an insurmountable problem to me.

I personally wouldn’t dream of never having my own nephew to my house because of this. He’s part of your family, and a person in his own right not a favour to your brother.