Nephew is dog phobic. Visiting dilemma

[DaughterOfEvening]

I’ve kept this quite vague as my SIL is on here. DB has asked to come and visit us with their children, all three over 6. We don’t live close by, a few hours drive. We have room for them to stay. They have not yet visited our house as we moved during lockdown. Their eldest is 12 and has always been dog phobic (will scream, cry, run away)
Phone call today from DB asking for detailed layout of the house and where the dogs will be as “Billy” won’t be in the same room as a dog. We have two very lazy dogs who sleep for 20+ hours a day. The dogs are not barkers or jumpers.

I have reassured him that neither dog will be wandering around and that they will stay on their respective beds in one room downstairs. The dogs have never been upstairs. Ever.
Brother has said that it’s not enough, that’s it’s nothing personal. He’s just not willing to put Billy under any stress.
I’m not sure if he’s expecting me to shut the dogs outside but if he asked this then my polite response would be oh dear, you have long drive back then.
Should I be more accommodating?

@Whatiswrongwithmyknee

*Whatiswrongwithmyknee

That is exactly what the op is going to do. Can people not read!?

It's not. The OP said the child would be able to see the dogs when he walked along the corridor. So the dogs will be in the room but will not be shut in the room.

You've got that completely wrong.*

Nope. This is what the OP said in one if her posts. Despite people asking whether she will shut the door, she has not said she will. You are the one who is getting things completely wrong.

he layout of the house is such that Billy would not need to walk through the room where the dogs will be. He would be able to see them if he chose to walk past the corridor leading to that part of the house.

That quote does not prove your point. The OP has said nothing about not closing doors. As I said upthread, the doors could be glass/have glass panels in them

Glad they're not coming OP. You're not in the wrong whatsoever.

Another thing the family friends did that helped me to overcome my fear was to let their dogs be in the room with us, but on their leads and with the handle end anchored under the leg of the chair they were sitting on.

So I was in the same room as my nemesis and learning how it behaved & reacted, but safe in the knowledge that it couldn't get at me!

Gradually over time, that built my confidence such that I was able to approach the dog "on my terms" knowing I could back away if Fido got too boisterous for my liking.

They didn't keep the dog on the lead or locked in a room for the whole visit - The dogs needs always came first and I fully understood that I was in their home and it was "my problem".

But looking back, it was those "controlled" times when dog & I were in the same room but the owner was holding the dog by its lead or collar so it couldn't "get me" - That helped me build my confidence.

To those posters asking about dogs in the streets - Yes, I'd cross the road or give them a very wide berth whilst keeping my eye on them until they were safely down the street & out of sight.

If there was a dog off lead in a park - I wouldn't leave my parents side.

I don't recall "therapy dogs" being a thing back then, but I was fine with guide dogs. In my eyes, they were special dogs like Spot or the Andrex Puppy. My mind never made the connection that beneath that cute obedient nature - they're just a dog.

OP - Is your DB also nervous of dogs? One of my parents were, so that probably went some way towards my phobia - The one person in my life who, in my 12 year old eyes, can fix any problem - was also afraid of dogs so wasn't able to be that reassuring to me.

Just seen your update . That's a shame .

I had been going to suggest that your brother and his family stay in a nearby hotel / air B&B and then come and visit you for a few hours .

I think it's reasonable to shut your dogs in another room for a few hours for a visit , but I don't think it fair that you should be on edge for an overnight stay, worrying that your nephew will inadvertently come into contact with your dogs. I wouldn't be shutting my dog outside .

Whilst I think limited exposure to your calm dogs may be helpful to your nephew , every time I hear of a phobia I have to put myself in the position of 'what if it was a huge spider' and that helps me understand how others may feel with a different phobia !

They will need to stay somewhere else then.

Your dogs live there. It's their home. He's visiting. Not reasonable at all to expect the dogs to accommodate him.

IF it were my child, I would be fine with that and simply find alternative accommodation!

odd that hes so scared he stood watching them-maybe your brother is exaggerating it all

@Whatiswrongwithmyknee

The child doesn't even need to go near the room they are in.

But that's completely irrelevant. The point is that knowing the dog can leave the room is going to be frightening for Billy. As others have tried to point out, think of something you are terrified of and then imagine that it was in a room with free access to you if it wanted it. Would the host telling you that it won't leave the room feel like enough protection?

In that case, the only thing that will work will be shooting the dogs.

If keeping them away from the kid isn’t enough, what will be?

@DaughterOfEvening

DB has messaged to say that they won’t be coming as it’s too much for Billy (and him) I could have done without the night of soul searching and worry that I hadn’t been sufficiently accommodating or mindful of Billy’s phobia. I feel that I HAVE been now, given the conversation with DB this morning.

He invited himself, huffed and puffed about the dogs, skirting around the fact that the only way that Billy would be able to visit is if I didn’t have dogs at all.
I could not have done any more.

The layout of the house is such that Billy would not need to visit the part where the dogs would be. This was unacceptable in DB’s opinion.
At our previous home the dogs were shut behind a babygate in a utility area when they visited. Many times I had found Billy standing next to the babygate watching the dogs asleep on their beds and found this strange. Make if this what you will.

Best decision. It removes the stress from you now and stress to your dogs. To be honest I'd be going low contact with 'D'B after how he has behaved about this. He does not sound like a nice person at all, and sounds very manipulative and abusive. Keep your distance from them.

I'm dog phobic.
I cannot stand them & think dogs, dog people & their homes absolutely reek.

I don't visit or stay over at dog owners houses.
That's my choice.

It's not the dogs fault, or the dog owners fault that I won't be in the same building as one & much as I dislike them, it seems really unfair the dog should be turfed out of it's own home for someone else (unless it was a baby visiting because I think dogs are unsafe around very young children even if you never leave them alone in a room together).

@Snugglepumpkin

I'm dog phobic. I cannot stand them & think dogs, dog people & their homes absolutely reek.

I don't visit or stay over at dog owners houses.
That's my choice.

It's not the dogs fault, or the dog owners fault that I won't be in the same building as one & much as I dislike them, it seems really unfair the dog should be turfed out of it's own home for someone else (unless it was a baby visiting because I think dogs are unsafe around very young children even if you never leave them alone in a room together).

The people? So you know someone owns a dog just by smelling them? Wow!

@Whatiswrongwithmyknee

The child doesn't even need to go near the room they are in.

But that's completely irrelevant. The point is that knowing the dog can leave the room is going to be frightening for Billy. As others have tried to point out, think of something you are terrified of and then imagine that it was in a room with free access to you if it wanted it. Would the host telling you that it won't leave the room feel like enough protection?

Well, the OP’s house is clearly unsuitable for Billy to visit.

Probably best for Billy that they don’t visit. Simple.

@Whatiswrongwithmyknee

Such judgement on the brother here! He's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. No-one knows whether he's tried to get help for his son and yet he's being called horrific names for not doing to. No-one knows if the visiting is actually part of a graded exposure which could have a positive effect if the dogs were reliably (and in Billy's head reliably) always in a different part of the house.

He’s damned because isn’t doing a single, solitary thing.

And he is damned because he wants to bring his dog-phobic kid to a house with dogs, and putting them well away from the kid wasn’t enough.

And he’s damned because he likes bossing his sister.

Great that OP stood her ground.

Its the dogs home. They should book a travel lodge. 12 year old needs professional help with his issues. Family should not have allowed it to get this bad.

It's interesting the nephew would go to watch the sleeping dogs. I wonder if he is ready to try and address his fear.

@Whatiswrongwithmyknee

Such judgement on the brother here! He's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. No-one knows whether he's tried to get help for his son and yet he's being called horrific names for not doing to. No-one knows if the visiting is actually part of a graded exposure which could have a positive effect if the dogs were reliably (and in Billy's head reliably) always in a different part of the house.

Your post doesn't even make any logical sense. If it was about 'graded exposure', then why is he so desperate to make sure Billy can't ever see the dogs?

It ever so clearly is NOT 'part of a graded exposure'. Graded exposure entails an hour or 2 maximum, not 24-48 hours. It entails actually seeing the dogs, not being unable to ever see the dogs.

The 'D'B is abusive, controlling and manipulative and neglecting his son. That's that.

If it was my child I wouldn't even be considering the idea of staying over and would keep the visit short and preferably away from where the dogs are.
A phobia is something that would set the child on edge even being aware that the dogs are somewhere in the house.
Your brother should be aware of this and should make moves to help his child with his fear in a controlled and progressive way rather then avoiding dealing with it appropriately.
Turn the visit down based on his expectations- you will be doing the child a favour and tell him to rethink how it can be done. Booking a travelodge sounds good

The OP has said nothing about not closing doors.

Exactly and as this is such a relevant point, one wonders why the OP is not saying she will shut the door. Your point does not prove that the door will be shut so you can't really call everyone wrong for not agreeing with you.

*In that case, the only thing that will work will be shooting the dogs.

If keeping them away from the kid isn’t enough, what will be?*

Nope, shutting the door would work. No need to get dramatic about things.

*Your post doesn't even make any logical sense. If it was about 'graded exposure', then why is he so desperate to make sure Billy can't ever see the dogs?

It ever so clearly is NOT 'part of a graded exposure'. Graded exposure entails an hour or 2 maximum, not 24-48 hours. It entails actually seeing the dogs, not being unable to ever see the dogs.*

Graded exposure is done in various different ways. It should be set up in an indivdualised way so these rigid rules you suggest do not actually exist. Being in a house with something you are working towards being able to fully tolerate could easily be a step in this. #

*Well, the OP’s house is clearly unsuitable for Billy to visit.

Probably best for Billy that they don’t visit. Simple.*

Yes this would be one solution but if it were my family I would want to move heaven and earth to make it possible for the son to be visit - without shooting the dogs of course....

My daughter was terrified of dogs. We twice tried to visit family members with dogs. On each occasion they invited us and offered to ensure that she would never be in the same room as the dogs. On each occasion they stuck to that for a few hours and then tried to acclimatise her to them. On each occasion we left early and after that we declined future invitations to homes with dogs. I think your brother should not be visiting with this child.

Eventually DD had hypnotherapy which was very effective. She can now stay calm around them but she still isn't keen on them so she avoids houses with dogs.

At our previous home the dogs were shut behind a babygate in a utility area when they visited. Many times I had found Billy standing next to the babygate watching the dogs asleep on their beds and found this strange. Make if this what you will.

That's a good thing - it shows that he's curious enough and wants to learn and understand how another creature behaves, but with the safety of the babygate stopping said creature from getting to him.

The same as watching the lions at the zoo from behind the safety glass - But you wouldn't feel comfortable standing in the enclosure with them.

Now, as per my previous posts, it's about gradually building on that interaction.

He's happy watching the dogs behind a screen... But terrified of being in the same room as an off-lead dog.

So the next middle-ground - Put the dog on a lead for a bit and encourage your DN to be in the same room. The dog is still moving around, but can't get at him because of the lead.

Gradually your DN will understand that he won't get eaten the moment he sets foot in the same room :)

I am not madly keen on dogs but would never expect a relative to shut them outside if I was visiting

Yes this would be one solution but if it were my family I would want to move heaven and earth to make it possible for the son to be visit - without shooting the dogs of course....

So, what is your solution?

I think it’s odd that you haven’t just offered to pop a baby gate across the entrance to the corridor to their part of the house if the baby gate worked well last time?
I say this as a dog lover and owner, but that would seem to me to be a fair compromise for a child you love.

@FruitMelange

My kid hates dogs so we never go to anyone's houses with dogs. Simple

Same here. People get really offended though, if you don't like their dog. My cousin gets all sniffy and starts banging stuff around when I tell her no thanks, you come to us instead.

SOME people get really offended and they are probabaly asshats anyway and not just about their dogs. Please don't tar us all with the same brush.

@Gardeningtipsneeded

I think it’s odd that you haven’t just offered to pop a baby gate across the entrance to the corridor to their part of the house if the baby gate worked well last time? I say this as a dog lover and owner, but that would seem to me to be a fair compromise for a child you love.

I think its odd to have expended so much angst on someobody who just wants to come and nosey around the OP's new house, brother or not.

@Gardeningtipsneeded

I think it’s odd that you haven’t just offered to pop a baby gate across the entrance to the corridor to their part of the house if the baby gate worked well last time? I say this as a dog lover and owner, but that would seem to me to be a fair compromise for a child you love.

Yes I agree. Though perhaps the onus is on the brother to provide the stair gate rather than the OP.