Why does 'wokeness' annoy people so much?

[twwindow]

Isn't it just trying to make the world a better place but making people feel accepted no matter their race, gender etc?

It seems to wind some people up so bad - and it's usually those that are part of a majority group that gets wound up most by it (usually white/men) - is it because they feel threatened?

Whenever anyone stands up for a cause they are automatically called woke - and it's now as if it's a bad thing.

It's sad, I see people fed up with 'wokeness' as code for 'we can't get away with our racist, sexist BS anymore as people are calling us out'.

@Datun

Keep it up.

@NoNotMeNoSiree

Every single bloody thread, even threads that are about wokeness, always go the same way and start banging on about '' define woman / living as a woman! '' Why not go and dig out one of the hundreds of other threads on here where people have repeatedly tried to engage? You get to a certain point and you realise nah fuck it. They're just being obtuse/playing faux innocence, like it's some big game.

No, it’s the opposite of a game. It’s fucking existential. As I explained in my post to John above.

And no, it’s never been answered in any way that supports the claims the Genderists make that this womanny “thing” is so personal that it can’t be objectively observed, only self-identified, and yet is so hugely important to all aspects of one’s life and how society treats one that it must replace the clearly observeable fact of sex in all things.

So while you may find it boring, until there’s an answer that supports the claims the Genderists make and wish to change existing rights and protectIons on the basis of I think it’s reasonable that those of us who will be affected by the redefinition of “woman” should want to know exactly what this new definition actually is, no?

@JohnHuffam1812

So you agreee the language matters?

Yet people on this thread have been very damning about people who seek to control the language others use, in fact its a major criticism aimed at the "woke".

I really don't understand what you are trying to say here

And I might say language matters whilst other people might say something else , because this is n open forum of many individuals not the Borg

Language matters implies an element of control , agreed definitions of words , but I don't think that's what you mean

What do you think I mean?

I have no idea

@TurquoiseBaubles

It's interesting to see how some posters think that just repeating the same thing over and over makes it true. It's like arguing with a toddler.

Or playing chess with a pigeon.

"No one has been cancelled"
*Examples
"That doesn't count"

@DdraigGoch

Then give good examples of people who have been cancelled.

Cause the ones given so far aren't good ones.

@JohnHuffam1812

So you agreee the language matters?

Yet people on this thread have been very damning about people who seek to control the language others use, in fact its a major criticism aimed at the "woke".

Yet people on this thread

Some people John, some people.

As I said earlier, l entirely accept the “woke” analysis that there are unconscious biases and implicit power structures replicated through culture, of which language is part. In fact, I knew that thirty years ago before many of today’s “woke” were even born. I don’t believe changing language changes reality but I do believe it changes how we think about reality, which when it comes to social power is effectively the same thing. And I think it’s a valid tactic, just as feminists once fought to make gendered job titles gender neutral.

I also think if a person from a marginalised group tells me language I use offends them*, it’s ok for them to ask me not to use it even though I know myself no offensive was intended.

(* actually this has never happened to me, but I’ve been in situations where it has happened and so I have considered how I would feel and react.)

However, just because I think changing language is a valid tactic doesn’t mean I automatically think all cases using this tactic are valid. I don’t think changing language to obscure female reality is a good change. I think we need to find a better way to support trans identities, one which doesn’t require gaslighting female people into accepting the structural and personal sexism they encounter has nothing to do with their female body.

"Some people John, some people."

Actually a lot of people.

I come from a family that is incredibly diverse, with a mixture of black, white and Asian (Chinese) family members.

My white grandfather travelled the world and made friends from far and wide. In a time when racism was extremely common in the UK, my family brought me up to understand that we were all human and all equal, without even verbalising that to me. We’d always have guests from abroad and some later became family.

My grandfather died long ago, but his funeral was filled with people who loved him, from many different races and religions.

Growing up I just understood that we were all equal. There was no virtue signalling or pantomime. There were no lectures or over the top demonstrations of how un-racist we were. It was just natural.

‘Wokeness’ can be cringe. It can be over the top. It can come across as self flagellation or guilt inspired. It can look like pantomime or theatre. It can cause embarrassment. Sometimes it comes across as not very genuine and more of a fashion statement than anything else.

For instance, having a road crossing in the rainbow colours, left my gay friend rolling their eyes.

So for me it depends on what we are doing…and how we are doing it. But sometimes people get it very very wrong. I don’t feel the need to tell people how inclusive I am. How I simply behave in my day to day life demonstrates that.

@JohnHuffam1812

I answered the question

Keep going, you really don't bother me.

Since you are really struggling

Woman - adult human female

Female - of or denoting the sex that can bear offspring or produce eggs, distinguished biologically by the production of gametes (ova) which can be fertilized by male gametes.

You’re welcome.

Being socially aware only works if you are also scientifically aware. Otherwise it leads to people making things up and arguing with others that night is day.

Not struggling at all.

Thanks though.

What do you normally do, when you are not arguing with the laydeees? Which is a terribly woke thing to do - so righteous, puritanical, and full of a blinkered kind of certainty.

What do you normally do when you're not making insinuations about people on the internet?

The only thing I've said in certainity is about the examples of being cancelled and how people use woke.

Did you?
You are not terribly clear

@bordermidgebite

That might be due to the misrepresentation of points .

You are deliberately misrepresenting your points ? Why?

Just watch the last episode of the Sex and the City Reboot and I dare you not to cringe.

@DoleWhipFloat

I come from a family that is incredibly diverse, with a mixture of black, white and Asian (Chinese) family members.

My white grandfather travelled the world and made friends from far and wide. In a time when racism was extremely common in the UK, my family brought me up to understand that we were all human and all equal, without even verbalising that to me. We’d always have guests from abroad and some later became family.

My grandfather died long ago, but his funeral was filled with people who loved him, from many different races and religions.

Growing up I just understood that we were all equal. There was no virtue signalling or pantomime. There were no lectures or over the top demonstrations of how un-racist we were. It was just natural.

‘Wokeness’ can be cringe. It can be over the top. It can come across as self flagellation or guilt inspired. It can look like pantomime or theatre. It can cause embarrassment. Sometimes it comes across as not very genuine and more of a fashion statement than anything else.

For instance, having a road crossing in the rainbow colours, left my gay friend rolling their eyes.

So for me it depends on what we are doing…and how we are doing it. But sometimes people get it very very wrong. I don’t feel the need to tell people how inclusive I am. How I simply behave in my day to day life demonstrates that.

@DoleWhipFloat

Totally agree, your grandfather sounds like he's got it right. Just love your life, no need to prove how much of an "ally" you to get others approval - that's what "woke" conjures in my head, anyway

@bordermidgebite

Which points am I misrepresenting?

I was misrepresented a lot yesterday, lots of strawman building going on too.

You just said misrepresenting of points not me -

And i am still waiting to hear what you meant earlier and with your hatred of straw men I would rather not guess or present alternatives

@bordermidgebite

You said: "You are deliberately misrepresenting your points ? Why?"

Because you said about misrepresenting points

And I wanted to know why you were doing that

Unless you were accusing others of that?
But that might be straw manning?

Or else it's just another case where you are not clear ?

This can't be recognised though as the whole basis of trans ideology is built on a ridiculous unreflective belief that there is such a thing as 'being' or 'living' as a woman which is about neither our largely shared biology or our largely shared vulnerability to societal oppression and violence both driven by our biology. Anyone who chooses to look beyond their own needs can see this for the house of cards it is. But people don't want to deconstruct their own privilege and will use any number of tactics in order to silence people who ask for genuine discussion about this. Genuine discussion which can't even start until people answer simple question such as this in a simple way.

This. The whole thing is nonsense, it doesn't make any sense without a religious faith in gendered souls which handily correlate with stereotyped patriarchal versions of the sexes, and the "woke" know this.

ForagingForMullberries

I don't shy away from robust debate but unfortunately this thread has been taken over by one-issue keyboard warriors screaming down any opposition with hyperbolic 'facts' and patronising abuse which is clearly all you're capable of.