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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Why does 'wokeness' annoy people so much?

999 replies

twwindow · 27/12/2021 20:18

Isn't it just trying to make the world a better place but making people feel accepted no matter their race, gender etc?

It seems to wind some people up so bad - and it's usually those that are part of a majority group that gets wound up most by it (usually white/men) - is it because they feel threatened?

Whenever anyone stands up for a cause they are automatically called woke - and it's now as if it's a bad thing.

It's sad, I see people fed up with 'wokeness' as code for 'we can't get away with our racist, sexist BS anymore as people are calling us out'.

OP posts:
Zerogravity · 28/12/2021 19:37

I thought this was fairly understandable, should I have said living as a transwoman instead ?
Is this your "answer"? Because it doesn't actually answer anything, just poses another question. So no, it's not understandable. Could you actually answer it?

JohnHuffam1812 · 28/12/2021 19:38

@DdraigGoch

The R.A admitted that THEY had mismanaged it, they had very few complaints anyway. Are you saying no one is allowed to complain?

Blibbyblobby · 28/12/2021 19:38

@NoNotMeNoSiree

Exactly, but I'd save your breath ad they'd still pretend not to see the posts where people have answered even if they jumped up and bopped them on the nose grin

Yes, you definitely got me bang to rights. Why don't you show me up for the fool I am and link to John's answer to the question of "what is living like a woman and is it different to actually being a woman"?

OMG12 · 28/12/2021 19:40

Because it’s people telling me what I can think and say. What is worse those people very rarely have applied any critical thinking to what they are saying, prime example is cultural appropriation. Wokeness almost invariably involves victimhood, it is far from empowering to the groups they are claiming to represent.

JohnHuffam1812 · 28/12/2021 19:40

? Because it doesn't actually answer anything, just poses another question. So no, it's not understandable. Could you actually answer it?

I thought it was pretty clear? Instead of living as a woman I should have said living as a transwoman.

It appears that all the antiwoke people find using the right language very important when its something they think is important.

Zerogravity · 28/12/2021 19:41

Ok. So what does living as a trans woman mean??

NoNotMeNoSiree · 28/12/2021 19:42

Every single bloody thread, even threads that are about wokeness, always go the same way and start banging on about '' define woman / living as a woman! ''
Why not go and dig out one of the hundreds of other threads on here where people have repeatedly tried to engage?
You get to a certain point and you realise nah fuck it.
They're just being obtuse/playing faux innocence, like it's some big game.

Datun · 28/12/2021 19:45

@JohnHuffam1812

I have done.
How does a man 'live as a woman'?

That's seven times I've asked.

JohnHuffam1812 · 28/12/2021 19:46

@NoNotMeNoSiree

Agreed.

What does living as a transwoman mean? Doesn't mean exactly that? Is it really hard to get your head around?

Or as I suspect are you actually waiting for an answer so you can retort in a predetermibed way?

JohnHuffam1812 · 28/12/2021 19:47

I have answered, above and before.

You can keep asking. You have the answer.

NoNotMeNoSiree · 28/12/2021 19:50

Or as I suspect are you actually waiting for an answer so you can retort in a predetermibed way?
Ooh I'm going for this option.
As I know that poster damn fine well doesn't really want an answer.
Well, they do, but only an answer they like.
If they don't like, they pretend they can't see it.

NoNotMeNoSiree · 28/12/2021 19:50

Or that it hasn't been answered in the first place

Datun · 28/12/2021 19:51

@JohnHuffam1812

I have answered, above and before.

You can keep asking. You have the answer.

Haha!! You haven't answered. You've asked a different question. 🤣

How does a man 'live as a woman"?

Datun · 28/12/2021 19:51

(Eight times)

JohnHuffam1812 · 28/12/2021 19:53

I answered the question

Keep going, you really don't bother me.

NoNotMeNoSiree · 28/12/2021 19:54

John that poster is on lots of trans threads asking the same thing over and over, I know for a fact people have answered them before, repeatedly over several threads.
It's faux innocence, it's beyond pathetic.
I'd save your breath, it's really not worth it.

LittleBabyCheeses · 28/12/2021 19:54

I’m a woman. I have no idea if I ‘live as a woman’, because I don’t know what determines that. If it means having long hair, wearing make up and dresses, then it seems I don’t live as a woman.
What does living as a woman entail?

Zerogravity · 28/12/2021 19:55

I answered the question
Where??

JohnHuffam1812 · 28/12/2021 19:56

Go look.

It led to an actual discussion about a few other things.

LumpySpacedPrincess · 28/12/2021 20:00

Could you re write your answer, can't see it.

JohnHuffam1812 · 28/12/2021 20:04

Go look.

This feels like a pile on to be fair.

As I said, I should have used different language.

But I feel the term is pretty much in everday parlance anyway, and this is why I think there is some kinda "gotcha" moment being queued up

Blibbyblobby · 28/12/2021 20:04

@JohnHuffam1812

? Because it doesn't actually answer anything, just poses another question. So no, it's not understandable. Could you actually answer it?

I thought it was pretty clear? Instead of living as a woman I should have said living as a transwoman.

It appears that all the antiwoke people find using the right language very important when its something they think is important.

Leaving aside the nasty little (incorrect) jibe “anti woke”, the reason female-centered Feminists think having a clear definition of the word “woman” in “living as a woman” or “trans women are women” matters is not because we are somehow all lexical fetishists, but because Woman is the word used in the legal definitions of our rights and in the other formal and informal definitions of spaces, provisions and opportunities that exist to counteract the continuous unfair risks and limitations that act of the female-bodied in a default male society.

If one wants to change a law or a convention, one can, as the gay rights and gay marriage movement did, walk up honestly and say “this is wrong, we challenge it, let there be an open public debate about it, let there be election manifestos, and let’s get an unfair law changed.”

Or one can, as the Genderist movement is doing with Women’s rights, opportunities and protections, leave the law as it stands but agitate to change the meaning of the words on which the law depends and get the effect of the law entirely changed without ever engaging in an open, fair and honest debate about the consequences of that change, indeed by denouncing any attempt to do so as an act of bigotry against the newly added “women” even though these have nothing to do with the group envisioned when the law was defined.

So, would I care if trans women were to use the word “women” alongside open acknowledge that they are not female and expect no access to female-only spaces, rights, protections and opportunities? Of course not. In fact in that context I believe the conversation about what it is to live “as a woman” would be empowering and enlightening for both groups.

But that is not what is going on. The Genderist movement is on the one hand dressing it up “just courtesy, just a word” but on the other using acceptance of that “just a word” as the justification to entirely demolish single sex provisions and negate the validity of femaleness as something of political significance and deserving of voice.

So right now, yes language, and exactly “what is a woman” matter very much.

Datun · 28/12/2021 20:06

@JohnHuffam1812

I answered the question

Keep going, you really don't bother me.

I asked what does living as a woman mean, to which you said:

What does living as a transwoman mean? Doesn't mean exactly that? Is it really hard to get your head around?

I'm not trying to 'bother' you. Im asking a question that you claimed I thought this was fairly understandable.

How does a man live as a woman?

That's ten times.

JohnHuffam1812 · 28/12/2021 20:07

So you agreee the language matters?

Yet people on this thread have been very damning about people who seek to control the language others use, in fact its a major criticism aimed at the "woke".

Scoobydoobywho · 28/12/2021 20:07

I manage to be not Woke, not racist not transphobic and not homophobic all at the same time.

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