Why does 'wokeness' annoy people so much?

[twwindow]

Isn't it just trying to make the world a better place but making people feel accepted no matter their race, gender etc?

It seems to wind some people up so bad - and it's usually those that are part of a majority group that gets wound up most by it (usually white/men) - is it because they feel threatened?

Whenever anyone stands up for a cause they are automatically called woke - and it's now as if it's a bad thing.

It's sad, I see people fed up with 'wokeness' as code for 'we can't get away with our racist, sexist BS anymore as people are calling us out'.

It’s largely virtue signalling and actually is a way for people to be mean whilst hiding behind the veneer of being ‘kind’ or woke

"Sorry what"

Aren't half of those people who are trans women who live as men?

You know what the answer to this will be don’t you?
‘But your phrasing your question in a way that gets you the answer you want’ or ‘but that’s a strawman argument’ or ‘depends what you mean by living as’.
Honestly, it’s hilarious how the ‘yeah but, no but, crowd will do all they can to dismiss the obvious - all because it makes them sound progressive:

Yeah I know, but I'm such an optimist.

[quote JohnHuffam1812]@NoNotMeNoSiree

It is funny to watch them squirm.

It really is.[/quote]
This seems a particularly male aggressive type of reaction - care to elaborate? Who you think was “squirming”, why exactly (as I certainly hadn’t seen you win any argument) and how making women feel uncomfortable on a women’s discussion forum brought you such pleasure?

@JohnHuffam1812

I thought the trans issue was virtually 50/50 not just a "patriarchy" thing.

The vast overwhelming majority are men who want to be women. It's rare that it is female wanting to be male. And it is these men - or male bodied persons if you prefer, that are dictating to women that we must now be known as 'menstruators' or 'cervix havers' because it upsets the male-bodied people that they are not biological women, so we need to change general language, terms usage and discourage to suit the male feelings. Likewise we need to allow male-bodied people (did you know only 3% of biological males actually go through a sex change transition? That means 97% of people with a penis want to access female dressing rooms) in our restrooms, dressing rooms, spas, etc. If not, we are abused by these men and called names, receive rape threats etc. It is all by the patriarchy for the patriarchy. Trans issues, while being a first world capitalist white privilege issue, is all about advancing the patriarchal position. The fact they want to remove protections that our foresisters fought for decades ago proves this.

@JohnHuffam1812

"Sorry what"

Aren't half of those people who are trans women who live as men?

How do women 'live as men', then?

If you genuinely believe that gender critical people would agree with one, but not the other, then you have failed to grasp the issue even by the tiniest degree.

@Theeyeballsinthesky

The professionally woke are only interested in certain types of transgressions

They’re more than happy to be ageist “ok boomer” sexist - prioritising the feelings of male ppl over women because they might be sad if they can’t use woman’s spaces when they say they feel like a woman and frankly couldn’t give a fuck about the difficulties faced by ppl with disabilities

Corporates signal their wokedom with east solutions that don’t require any effort of heaven forgets money eg making the ladies loos ‘gender neutral’ requires no more than a change of signage. How much easier to do that than make physical changes to buildings to accommodate ppl with mobility difficulties or put on proper childcare facilities.

I’ll not be lectured by ppl who’ve hardly lived and spent most of what they have lived on line, about who does and does not face discrimination in society

Agree with all of this

@TurquoiseBaubles

You've refused to acknowledge things about transpeople's lives as you have about violence and crime.

Tell you what isn't a way to have a discussion, proposing a loaded question with a retort prepared either way as your transphobia question was.

It's rare that it is female wanting to be male
How do you come to that conclusion?

@JohnHuffam1812

See again using Reed as an outlier to day that BL. Got their numbers wrong is poor.

BLM's numbers on the shooting of black men are overwhelmingly backed up by research from many different institutions. Whilst Reed is interesting on class, he fails to note (in the articles I've read) why there is such a wealth disparity between blacks and whites in the US and how this is linked to history.

This is bs, I'm sorry. If you'd actually read what he's written about producing strong statistical analysis, you'd understand that what you are saying about other groups stats is totally irrelevant to his point.

Adolph Reed is a hell of a lot more credible than people like Robin DeAngelo. And FWIW there are plenty of other scholars who agree with him.

And "outlier" is an word that in this instance shows the whole problem with what the OP was asking. You are incapable of having an actual discussion at anything more than a superficial level about questions like this, and then throw around the idea that people who disagree with you, or BLM, or whatever else, are just some kinds of bigots. That's it, check the box - if you are 100% on board with BLM, then your good, if not, you must be a racist.

*discourage should be discourse

I don't have an issue with wokeness. I have an issue with single minded people harassing and bullying others to try to force them to accept their point of view as the only one, and their skewed version of facts as real. I'm all for people being passionate, but there's a fine line between passion and ignorance and only a small jump between ignorance and aggression, which sadly is where many of today's activists choose to lobby from. Why should my firm belief in women's rights mean I'm called horrible names, threatened with physical or sexual violence and humiliated? Why am I a disgusting bastard because I'd rather drive my child to hospital than get there in a handcart like a medieval peasant. But the ER protestors can drive down a motorway to block the roads and prevent others using it! Why is it ok for these people to do that, yet if I called them a bunch of fair weather protestors who fail to walk the talk, I'd be the bad, vilified, cancelled one even though evidence suggests i am right.

Patriarchy doesn't mean what men think
It means a society ( male and female ) that promotes the male over female

I would disagree with a pp. certainly at the younger ages there is actually more transmen than transwomen. ( oh look a sex based difference). Reasons for transitioning also exhibit sex differences

@NoNotMeNoSiree

It's rare that it is female wanting to be male How do you come to that conclusion?

Research and evidence.

Oh, for the love of God, John, will you just describe what you think living as a woman means?
Please do.

@SantaClawsServiette.

Righto blm and every other institution that says that black men are more at risk of being killed by the police are wrong. It's funny that so many eminent institutions are wrong.

Be as woke as you like but don’t try and inflict your hand wringing ways on me

Still struggling with that living as a woman answer, JohnHuffam1812?

Is that because you've just given it the first bit of thought you've ever given it, and realised how bloody sexist it is?

@CMZ2018

Be as woke as you like but don’t try and inflict your hand wringing ways on me

But how did we end up here? With accusations of 'hand wringing'? and whatever else. It seems to me that somewhere along the way the word was hijacked and not accidentally either. If you don't have the language to articulate your oppression then it seems you're not oppressed - I suppose in the same way you could argue if 'woman' means everything then it doesn't mean anything at all?. I've been 'woke' as it were since I was a child because my parents were very forthright with these sorts of things. At the time I did think they were a bit extreme but thinking about it in adulthood they were right.

[quote JohnHuffam1812]@TurquoiseBaubles

You've refused to acknowledge things about transpeople's lives as you have about violence and crime.

Tell you what isn't a way to have a discussion, proposing a loaded question with a retort prepared either way as your transphobia question was.[/quote]
No loaded questions here. I genuinely want to know if you think lesbians are transphobic for rejecting dick. It would give me an idea of where you are coming from - whether your opinions are homophobic as well as misogynistic.

As for your information about transpeople's lives, I have seen you link to statements in newspapers (one from Pink News iirc), not to actual statistics taken from proper studies. There are so many figures being bandied around that are factually incorrect - trans life expectancy, trans suicide figures, trans murder rates, levels of transphobia (with no definition) etc etc, that I would be very interested in reading anything that was factual.

It's just I know two trans men and I'm not exactly from a big city so they must be fairly common.
The way you say trans men are rare sounds like they hardly exist.
Which definitely isn't true.

@JohnHuffam1812

Oooh ohhh woke

Lets watch MN decsend into anti trans batshittery that misundertands the process of becoming trans and blames all changes on the Labour party.

Even though the reforms to the GRA were insitigated by the Tories and are being led by a Tory MP. Who also recieves death threats and more from those ever so balanced people just trying to look out for women.

Essentially getting cross at the woke is part of the right wing culture war, they'll stoke whatever issue they want to, and provide loads of misinformation ( see above) and in order to maintain their status quo.

JohnHuffam1812 can you please explain the 'process of becoming trans' to me please? Might just clear up some of the misunderstandings?

I'd advise you to go and look at the minster who is leading the process of changing the GRA for that. The article she wrote last week explains it quote well.

@JohnHuffam1812

I'd advise you to go and look at the minster who is leading the process of changing the GRA for that. The article she wrote last week explains it quote well.

So still can't answer the living as a woman thingy??

@JohnHuffam1812

I'd advise you to go and look at the minster who is leading the process of changing the GRA for that. The article she wrote last week explains it quote well.

John - still here? Care to answer my post? What’s the particular argument you thought you had won and why you enjoy trying to make women uncomfortable on a forum dedicated to women?