Why does 'wokeness' annoy people so much?

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Isn't it just trying to make the world a better place but making people feel accepted no matter their race, gender etc?

It seems to wind some people up so bad - and it's usually those that are part of a majority group that gets wound up most by it (usually white/men) - is it because they feel threatened?

Whenever anyone stands up for a cause they are automatically called woke - and it's now as if it's a bad thing.

It's sad, I see people fed up with 'wokeness' as code for 'we can't get away with our racist, sexist BS anymore as people are calling us out'.

@JohnHuffam1812

Except there is a whole process if gaining a GRC that must be followed and the challenges of life that are faced by those who are trans are far greater than any possible benefit that could be gained from just "deciding " to say they are male/female.

According to Stonewall that makes you a transphobe.

As not every trans person has or needs a GRC. The choices of an individual, their feelings and gender expression is enough.

Years of training , limited ability to become weathly yet still men trained to be priests with no actual vocation

[quote beastlyslumber]Not RTFT but here's a list of cancellations for the people who were asking for examples of people cancelled for not being woke/woke enough: www.canceledpeople.com/cancelations[/quote]
Fucking hell. Some of these are appalling. In a 'what the fuck can we believe or say' way.

@Tal45

Two words - virtue signalling.

This. More often than not - it's fake as fuck and so tiresome.

@user1745

It would be fine it was really just about being open and accepting and kind and making the world a better place.

But it's not. It very quickly becomes about controlling the views people express or even think. It quickly becomes at odds with free speech. People end up being ostracised for expressing differing opinions, even if their opinion was politely expressed. It promotes a very black and white view of the world whereby you're either with them 100%, without any reservations or qualms, or you're a racist homophobic terf, which is very unhealthy. It promotes a view of people and ourselves that focuses excessively on labels and which identity boxes you fit into, which I don't believe is healthy, especially for children. Certain labels and identities tend to be implied as having less value, e.g being "cis" is implied to be less important or as having less social capital, because "cis" people "aren't oppressed". It focuses excessively on quite superficial and simplistic things like whether you publicly assent to a particular movement or concept (e.g trans rights), and not enough on the actual nitty gritty details and nuances (e.g the implications of giving transwomen exactly the same legal standing as women).

Great post.

[quote JohnHuffam1812]@HoardingSamphireSaurus

Which part of that isn't factually correct?

Funny how it seems to go against what the 6 people who makde a complaint said.

But I imagine they are not to be believed either[/quote]
More than 6 people, not all dancers complained.

It was in her own home and one of the issues was that her young son's bedroom decor was 'triggering' - the word used by one of the dancers who found it offensive.

What she said was not as you report, not even the dancers who complained said that, originally!

She was artistic director of a trust she set up, it was run by a board of directors, she was the choreographer

And on ...

I've never read anything by stonewall, but it makes far more sense that the challenges faced in life by transpeople mean that it negates any possible benefit of just deciding on a whim to be a man or woman.

And for what it's worth I do believe women need safe spaces, but I think there is a lot of nuance in the debate which is utterly ignored by those who claim to be supporting women's rights.

I also think it's an issue which is politicised by the right wing in a tactic imported from the states .See here when lots of women post that they couldn't vote for Labour whilst the changes to the GRA have been suggested and led by Tories.

But hey

See this is a misrepresentation of the issue.

No it isn't. Do you understand what "self ID" means?

And it's extremely debatable whether MTF trans people as a group face more difficulties than women.

@HoardingSamphireSaurus yet this is what is being reported.

Lots of excuses appear to be coming from you.

The people who complained are not to be believed then.

OK.

People who are being racist, homophobic etc never think of themselves as being that, though.

Which has zero to do with my point, well done!

You misunderstand a lot.

I am one who was a lifetime labour party member. I sent back my card with a note explaining that any party that included in its articles that women are based on anything other than sex would never have my vote.

That doesn't mean I would vote Tory. It means I am utterly politically homeless.

Maybe if you listened to what women are actually saying you might understand.

there is a lot of nuance in the debate

What is the nuance?

I think it can be summed up as seeing the world in terms of

"you are either with us or against us"

Or

"its a bit more complicated than that"

Often both supporting the cause anti-racism / anti-climate change, anti-sexism etc etc as a good thing.

What ends up happening is a lot of effort is being focused on attacking 'its a bit more complicated than thats' as not being committed enough. Ironically the 'its a bit more complicated' types have the benefit of experience and aren't just armchair activists and have come across real life challenges so understand why ideological purity often misses the point.

Frustratingly it means that actual racists et el are ignored in the process...

See here when lots of women post that they couldn't vote for Labour whilst the changes to the GRA have been suggested and led by Tories.

Labour brought in the GRA and the Equality Act, so it's not like their influence is nowhere to be seen. Also Labour is a really hostile place for woman-centred feminists. Because of the left wing people who think of themselves as morally correct.

@JohnHuffam1812

"Which behaviour?" The oens identified in the letter from the 6 dancers who were there.

"Which words?"

So it's OK to say that transwomen only become trans to gain access to women's spaces to commit sexual assault?

I mean I'm sure you don't believe that but this was a work event and she was the director of the company.

So it's OK to say that transwomen only become trans to gain access to women's spaces to commit sexual assault?

Many DO! Do you want evidence? I bring receipts.

Comparisons of official MOJ statistics from March / April 2019 (most recent official count of transgender prisoners):

76 sex offenders out of 129 transwomen = 58.9%

125 sex offenders out of 3812 women in prison = 3.3%

13234 sex offenders out of 78781 men in prison = 16.8%

transcrimeuk.com/
fairplayforwomen.com/transgender-male-criminality-sex-offences/
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/seven-sex-attacks-in-womens-jails-by-transgender-convicts-cx9m8zqpg?fbclid=IwAR1JhugsOSdg58PzKpMAfvzqZVXxb7mRWs93qWqQyBA6vupiwnk1U_BJOOc
www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/oct/11/transgender-prisoner-who-sexually-assaulted-inmates-jailed-for-life?fbclid=IwAR08uqN-2ZnWL4pXK48KNPnmoY50rczwkzuq9b2pt_5ztCfNtEJegvFifcE
www.fox46.com/news/transgender-woman-convicted-of-sexually-assaulting-10-year-old-girl-in-bathroom/?fbclid=IwAR3yH99iLa23aRiyUSqNEKYMmpUH_a2m5mqgMuBkawdxDZKUbcRUlrs5YwU
www.scotsman.com/regions/edinburgh-fife-and-lothians/female-spaces-need-better-protection-after-trans-woman-sex-assault-girl-say-campaigners-140883?fbclid=IwAR2iMILdrlxCbawettem8KbyhpnRUfjpQIx8ZhPUiEeFGXCia1_soi-5JZI
www.foxnews.com/us/parents-speak-out-at-loudoun-county-school-board-meeting?fbclid=IwAR37FGaYiVbTt8Wpl9f4fFAQYP8QfE_awkEJXGrM-6eh5JZCyHMxW2TghEM

Or here where a man dressed in girls clothing STOMPED viciously, violently and repeatedly on a girls head when she dared to suggest he didn't belong in the girls restroom. twitter.com/EderMauroPA/status/1457003482838360065?s=20 Notice the strength he has? There is a strength and power differential between girls/women and men. That, is why there are safe sex-based spaces for women.

The fact of the matter is some men WILL and HAVE taken advantage of it, and we make safeguarding laws for children and for women on the worst case scenario.

I guess you've also not heard of the LA Spa incident, the WOMEN'S spa where a male bodied person walked around naked with a 'semi' (to spell it out, semi erection) around near women, muslim women and girls? It later turned out that he was a registered sex offender. But like most misogynists, he used his power as a man to turn up to a woman's spa to inflict trauma and upset and he got off on doing that. And because of this 'trans women are women', he was EMBOLDENED to do so.
How would you feel if your mother was there?

Also the male bodied person who turned up at spa clinics demanding the woman who was the main worker there wax around his penis and testicles, and then attempted to sue those who refused.

Don't you see? It's about POWER. Men enjoy the power they have over women and 'get off' on women's trauma. Lastly an example of this can't be more clearer than when a RAPE SURVIVOR was forced from group therapy because of a man dressed as a man (who didn't contribute in therapy) turned up and clearly and understandably, this traumatised her. www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10249633/Rape-victim-forced-quit-therapy-sessions-feels-threatened-6ft-trans-woman.html
She said the man was smiling as he was listening to women there speak of their traumatic experiences. He was clearly getting off on it.

Fact is we warned that if self-ID comes in, men seeking to exert power and abuse women will take advantage. That is exactly what has happened and is happening, and now women are too afraid to go out in society, one elsewhere on this site said they now limit their fluid intake during the day so they don't have to go to the toilets at work. This will lead to UTIs.

This, is the affect on women. It's a devastating domino affect where women have our rights removed to placate the feelings of men. We are, in truth, much worse off in regards to rights and safeguarding than we were in the 1950s. That's how far we have regressed and had our rights stripped away from us.

Ah yes the days of "I couldn't possibly vote for Labour." They lost my vote a long time ago but it's interesting to see where people draw the line - wasn't it just the other day the tories lost their lead because they were outed for having a piss up when the rest of us were under strict instruction to not see our friends and relatives.

And for what it's worth I do believe women need safe spaces,

What does that actually mean? Do you believe in some circumstances female people need spaces without any male people in them?

When woke uni students cancel speakers and get people to leave jobs then it's not good. It's simply bullying for not believing my ideas. There is no debate amongst them.

@VladmirsPoutine

Ah yes the days of "I couldn't possibly vote for Labour." They lost my vote a long time ago but it's interesting to see where people draw the line - wasn't it just the other day the tories lost their lead because they were outed for having a piss up when the rest of us were under strict instruction to not see our friends and relatives.

Can I ask which party you think is least racist?

@JohnHuffam1812

Except there is a whole process if gaining a GRC that must be followed and the challenges of life that are faced by those who are trans are far greater than any possible benefit that could be gained from just "deciding " to say they are male/female.

No GRC is required to enter a female space. GRC is an optional extra. A male can self-ID one day and enter a woman's space. This IS happening!

@ItsLoisSangersFault

Maybe it would help if people could give me an example of famous woke people.

Daniel Radcliffe, Emma Watson and the one who played the ginger (can't recall his name)

"Many do" yet your statistics don't prove that there are many at all or that the sex offenders who are trans used their status to attack anyone.

But its nice to see that you can dismiss a whole group based on the behaviour of a minority.

"This is happening" and I agree it needs to be addressed with more nuance than just identifying.

However the current anti stance paints all trans.peiple as prospective sex offenders who merely adopt their status in order to exploit it.

@bordermidgebite

A loaded question to which I can predict the response. Which of course ignores a whole.lot of factors.

@ForagingForMullberries this. Absolutely this. Well said.