Why does 'wokeness' annoy people so much?

[twwindow]

Isn't it just trying to make the world a better place but making people feel accepted no matter their race, gender etc?

It seems to wind some people up so bad - and it's usually those that are part of a majority group that gets wound up most by it (usually white/men) - is it because they feel threatened?

Whenever anyone stands up for a cause they are automatically called woke - and it's now as if it's a bad thing.

It's sad, I see people fed up with 'wokeness' as code for 'we can't get away with our racist, sexist BS anymore as people are calling us out'.

@JohnHuffam1812

It was dismissed. A previous poster said she didn't trust the MP.

Sorry.

Oh and if it's men sending the abuse when it's pro trans issues, and those who might support trans rights have to take responsibility for that, why don't those who are pro women's rights in this case have to as well?

It seems to be double standards all round

Again, show us what you mean and we can discuss it.

Specifically examples.

It was dismissed. A previous poster said she didn't trust the MP.

Yes, like anyone I'm entitled to decide whether I trust individuals to tell the truth judging them on my personal impressions. Do you trust Boris Johnson always?

Plus you made up the bit about feminists sending her death threats, so I was right not to believe it, wasn't I?

A truly enlightened person can listen to both sides of an argument and accept there are rights and wrongs and different interpretations to every subject.

No they can't. I cannot see any circumstance in which racism is justified. I can't see how it's a debate. Or why we're still having discussions in the media along the lines of 'Does racism still exist in the UK' etc

I cannot see any circumstance in which racism is justified.
Same.
How on earth do you '' both sides '' racism?
It's never OK.

Who do you think is sending the abuse and bile she talks about when it comes to reform to the GRA?

Again. She talks about “abuse and bile” but the specifics she details have to do with people writing to her about how GRA reform will jeopardise women’s safety and make it easier for males to access female spaces. Apparently, we are wrong about this and should keep quiet, even though whole point of the reforms she wants is to make it easier for people to be recognised as the opposite sex.

That is not abuse and bile, however much it might suit TRAs to frame it as such (I can sort of understand why they do this, since their actual arguments do not stand up to reason or scrutiny: Noke’s Guardian article has more holes than a Swiss cheese).

There’s no debate to be had about racism, antisemitism or homophobia. There are no ‘both sides’ only right and wrong. If being 100% against prejudice makes me woke then it’s all good by me.

You're assuming that things like racism, misogyny, homophobia are always something that has a clear definition which is universally understood. They do not.

"Which behaviour?" The oens identified in the letter from the 6 dancers who were there.

"Which words?"

So it's OK to say that transwomen only become trans to gain access to women's spaces to commit sexual assault?

I mean I'm sure you don't believe that but this was a work event and she was the director of the company.

@LittleRoundRobin

People are not so much annoyed with, but are bored with wokeness and are pissed off with having to take their words out of their mouth and look at them before they speak, lest the offend the leftie-wokie brigade. Not just left-wing, many of who are fine, but the far-left/woke...

The leftie wokies are spiteful and vitriolic, and shout down ANYONE who doesn't think like them, with accusations of bigot, racist, gammon, and thick numb-skulled brex-shitteer etc....... Because they are sooo narrow minded and bigoted that they cannot accept ANY views other than their own, and assume every opinion of theirs is right, and any others are wrong, and anyone who thinks differently is THICK and uneducated.

And anyone who says 'well if the caps fits' is just proving my point.

The arrogance from some, knows no bounds. As I say, they think ONLY their views and opinions are valid, and correct, and (for example,) they say that anyone who questions 1000s of immigrants entering the UK illegally, is a massive over privileged racist, and if you voted Tory, you're a thick racist cunt.

The leftie wokies accuse people of being racist for the most innocuous comments. It's pathetic and embarrassing, and an insult to people actually suffering from racism.

Seriously, I have seen SO much nasty vitriolic shit written by leftie-wokies over this past 4 or 5 years on social media that it's no wonder some people have been pushed a bit further towards to right/right of centre.

Yet I rarely see the same hate and vitriol from right leaning or centric people. In fact, many right leaning and centric won't even post their views anymore because of the hateful spiteful comments from the leftie wokies.

The leftie wokies were all shocked and devastated because the Brexit LEAVE side won and Boris got in again, and not Corbyn. Cuz like EVERYONE they know hates the tories and voted remain. Errrr, actually NO they didn't. Lots of people voted tory and for the LEAVE vote; they just didn't tell you, because you're a spiteful, bigoted, small-minded troll who will lambast them and not want to be their 'FRIEND' anymore.

It only seems to be the leftie remoaner types who don't want to be friends with anyone who has a different opinion to them. Centric & 'right leaning' people will be friends with anyone.

There was a tweet on twitter a few days ago that spoke volumes about the narrow-minded and bigoted 'woke...'

'I’m friends with an ex Tory voter. Also Brexit voter but regrets it now. Is it unfair that although he’s lovely and a nice, kind, loyal friend, I have made it clear that our friendship can only ever go so far as I can’t forgive his voting past?'

I won't name this person on here, as I don't want her attacked anymore. She has been quite understandably lambasted on twitter. But THAT comment spoke volumes, and is the leftie wokies in a nutshell.

I am friends with right wing people, and left wing, and people like myself - centric. I am also friends with people who voted LEAVE in the 'Leave the EU' referendum, and those who voted 'remain.' Many of the remainers are perfectly nice people who have accepted we lost and are just getting on with life, and are not bleating about it almost 6 years later.

As a poster said a few posts back, these leftie wokie types are happy to insult when it suits, calling people over 60 'boomers' and pensioners greedy and over privileged. And they insult the working classes with sneery remarks about how only low class people say 'Santa' or 'tea' instead of dinner, and they deride single mothers on benefits, with children with names they class as 'chavvy...' But then they get on their wokie high horse when it suits.

The irony....spiteful and vitriolic poster attacks the spiteful and vitriolic...

'leftie woke' I mean, what the fuck does that actually mean? I assume you mean the far left???

The English footballers were accused of being 'woke' even the fucking black ones who get monkey chants and constant racist bile online, worse they were accused of being Marxist, earning 150K a day and buying huge houses ( like working class men can't do that and call out injustice, but Eton educated politicians can pretend to care about the common man). Accused of virtue signalling for taking the knee against racism was one of the saddest things I've seen in football, cowardly racists using 'woke' as. shield to vent their disgust at seeing white men bow down in protest against racism and then the avalanche of hate after a few black players missed the penalty and even Boris has to come out and defend them...utterly pathetic

Then they say, 'Yet I rarely see the same hate and vitriol from right leaning or centric people'

The whole term 'woke' has been manipulated, twisted and appropriated from black people, it's become a redundant term.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Who do you think is sending the abuse and bile she talks about when it comes to reform to the GRA?

I'd like to know whether "abuse and bile" is just women disagreeing robustly, and calling out her many shortcomings and shit management of the pointless GRA consultation she's presiding over. As you've grudgingly acknowledged that women aren't sending her violent threats, which was like pulling teeth

I'd like to know whether "abuse and bile" is just women disagreeing robustly, and calling out her many shortcomings and shit management of the pointless GRA consultation she's presiding over.

Yes I've noticed that people who are eager to do away with women's hard fought for and won protections deem any criticism as 'transphobic abuse', even if someone simply says "women deserve safe spaces". That, is considered 'abuse'. Anything other than agreeing with total dismantling of protections for vulnerable women is 'abuse', so the male on here, John, will excuse me for not believing the person because experience shows the femphobic side are all too eager to lie, twist, distort and manipulate to make feminists look bad. Even when all we are doing is asking for a safe space, for goodness sake. They claim a woman (Muslim women, DV survivor women, rape survivors etc) wanting a safe sex-based space is 'transphobic', so I trust them to tell the truth on 'bile' and 'abuse' as far as I could throw a 17 wheeler truck. They'll call a spade a backhoe shovel of they think it can give them leverage and make women look bad. They are master manipulators and have no qualms lying, they lie so easily. When we get to the stage where a vulnerable woman wanting a sex-based space is called 'transphobic' we know that side does not debate in good faith and can't be trusted to tell the truth.

I suspect t that the difference is between individual acts being perceived as racist -" I didn't get the job it MUST be racism"
Which can be open to interpretation

And "the chances of me getting promoted in this company are much lower than a white person" which isn't

I do like how "abuse and bile" can be written off as people writing to ger to explain the concerns.

It proves a lot.

Many good ideas expressed here so far.
It is often more about pointing out other peoples faults than suggesting alternatives.
Stopping things, not building anything up. A simple example. On MN "hate Boris, Tories Toxic" Love the Greens or LibDems.
Do they ever join the Green Party and work at getting their local candidate elected? Seldom.
Imagine if all that energy and time spent on SM had been used to learn about policies and then go out and talk to people on the door steps in the street.

That is why woke is derided.

This is why the "homophobia vs transphobia" question is important. If it's "transphobia" to deny that anyone who says they are a woman even if male is a woman and a lesbian then a lesbian can be called "transphobic" for her exclusive same sex attraction. Denying that there is such a thing as exclusive same sex attraction or implying that it's shameful is homophobia.

Eek, punctuate Eresh

"Anyone who says they are a woman" .

See this is a misrepresentation of the issue. It makes it seem like a light decision which could be taken for spurious reasons when trans people actually face lots more difficulties in life (lots of abuse, mental health issues and more) so just reducing it to this simple idea is reductionism of the highest order.

@JohnHuffam1812

I do like how "abuse and bile" can be written off as people writing to ger to explain the concerns.

It proves a lot.

The only evidence of actual abuse is from men

You are the one therefore implying that none abusive disagreeing messages are abuse

@JohnHuffam1812

"Which behaviour?" The oens identified in the letter from the 6 dancers who were there.

"Which words?"

So it's OK to say that transwomen only become trans to gain access to women's spaces to commit sexual assault?

I mean I'm sure you don't believe that but this was a work event and she was the director of the company.

Oh dear! No part of that.od factually correct.

Even ignoring feelings and opinions, that is all wrong.

Number of people, what was said, what the event was.

Try again. With specifics and links.

As I said, many posters on this thread have already discussed this, seen a lot of social media and formal communications about it. We may even have had direct communication with more than one person involved! Odd what pops up on MN threads!

@JohnHuffam1812

"Anyone who says they are a woman" .

See this is a misrepresentation of the issue. It makes it seem like a light decision which could be taken for spurious reasons when trans people actually face lots more difficulties in life (lots of abuse, mental health issues and more) so just reducing it to this simple idea is reductionism of the highest order.

Transpeople are not anyone who says they are a woman

The problem is that once anyone ,.. including none transpeople -can just say I am a woman then women are at increased risk of harm

@JohnHuffam1812

I do like how "abuse and bile" can be written off as people writing to ger to explain the concerns.

It proves a lot.

It proves nothing when you can't provide a single specific instance.

Show us...

Do you realise that people became priests to harm others ?

Bad people abuse systems and trust to harm others.

Women and children are at greatest risk due to physical weakness

Except there is a whole process if gaining a GRC that must be followed and the challenges of life that are faced by those who are trans are far greater than any possible benefit that could be gained from just "deciding " to say they are male/female.

@JohnHuffam1812

"Anyone who says they are a woman" .

See this is a misrepresentation of the issue. It makes it seem like a light decision which could be taken for spurious reasons when trans people actually face lots more difficulties in life (lots of abuse, mental health issues and more) so just reducing it to this simple idea is reductionism of the highest order.

See, that's a direct quote from Stonewall. Acceptance without question and all that.

It isn't women standing up to defend the rights of women doing the reducing.

You're assuming that things like racism, misogyny, homophobia are always something that has a clear definition which is universally understood. They do not.
People who are being racist, homophobic etc never think of themselves as being that, though.
They flat out refuse to see it in themselves even when they're being blatantly so.
They prefer to see themselves as being a realist or whatever, and /or how can they possibly be that when they have a black friend /family member or a gay one?!
Of course you can be even if you don't agree with what being racist or homophobic is.

@HoardingSamphireSaurus

Which part of that isn't factually correct?

Funny how it seems to go against what the 6 people who makde a complaint said.

But I imagine they are not to be believed either