Why does 'wokeness' annoy people so much?

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Isn't it just trying to make the world a better place but making people feel accepted no matter their race, gender etc?

It seems to wind some people up so bad - and it's usually those that are part of a majority group that gets wound up most by it (usually white/men) - is it because they feel threatened?

Whenever anyone stands up for a cause they are automatically called woke - and it's now as if it's a bad thing.

It's sad, I see people fed up with 'wokeness' as code for 'we can't get away with our racist, sexist BS anymore as people are calling us out'.

I've seen the receipts of death and rape threats from TRAs and their (mostly male) allies for JKR and Rosie Duffield and Kathleen Stock and many other women because they are all over the internet and there are literally thousands. I don't have to like or support Caroline Nokes just because she is female.

If she did get any threats I fully condemn them but the chances of them being from GC feminists are slim. Please link to receipts if you have them. I think Caroline Nokes is a nasty piece of work. I wouldn't send her threats though. I think cancel culture and purity spirals are unhelpful as a matter of principle although I can see why people want to turn the tables.

It isn't destroying universities, or TV or anything else.

#nodebate is a cancer. Sometimes you need to listen to the other side of the debate to form an opinion.

Yep. They don't like it much either when women call out the outdated sexist old bollocks that is believing that putting on some stockings and heels is being a woman.

Or that shilling for pimps and johns, brothel owners, porn sites and the male investors who rake in the cash from OnlyFans is not the progressive fight they claim it is.

Indeed.

That it's okay for the self-styled "woke" to sneer at women, condone death threats
I asked you upthread, (think it was you, apologies if not)
maybe you missed it but I'll ask again - where has anyone condoned death threats on here?!
Nobody's done anything of the sort.

@NoNotMeNoSiree

Not about cancel culture in general Yes, we seem to have shifted. It's not a discussion about being woke anymore, it's taking the usual predictable route all these threads end up taking. Even when I post about racism, I end up being quoted but going on about trans/ women's issues instead. It's a one track circular discussion.

Yes, because the ENTIRE idea of the "woke" isn't just about anti-racism, but about the whole package of "woke" ideas that include gender ideology, anti-capitalism of the most daft and counterproductive form, trans issues and pro-sex work ideology.

The fact that the "woke" - or faux progressive, or whatever we want to call them - sign up to an approved package of ideas they are told to believe, including all of these things, is the entire point of the stereotype about "cancel culture".

Woody Allen hasn't been cancelled. He made a movie a year for the last 10 years, as well as directing theatre and more.

"Artist Jess de Wahls had her products removed from the Royal Academy gift shop after 8 (!) complaints about transphobia."

And the Royal Academy apoligised and put the work back on sale. Not cancelled, mismanaged by the organisation.

How is it destroying comedy? Is that why Ricky Gervais and Someone Cleese are crying? Because the kids don't find their schtick funny? Times change, I used to watch Little Britain and I appreciate that it couldn't be made today because as it turns out doing a grotesque caricature of a Black woman (among other sketches) isn't acceptable.

"But don’t try to gloss over the fact that she has been subjected to a vile campaign of hate."

Which still is not being cancelled.

"Or are you ok with women receiving threats of rape and death? Is that all acceptable because, you know, her books are still for sale."

Strawman fail.

It really is awful when you have to stoop so low in a debate to misrepresent what someone is saying so badly because you can't make your own points effectively enough

Sorry, but if you (not you personally, just in general) are going to air say racist or homophobic views, you're going to come across views that disagree, and challenge yours.

Obviously. In fact, despite being neither racist nor homophobic I come across views that disagree and challenge mine all the time. But the aim should be (surely) to challenge those views in a way which means the other person may change their mind, not by just shutting them down entirely.

Making people feel afraid or vulnerable in an attempt to force them to submit to your world view is bullying, plain and simple. That counts for threats of death/rape (JKR), removal of employment (Maya Forstater, Allison Bailey, Kathleen Stock), visits from police (Harry Miller). And those are just the names I can remember off the top of my head. The fact that these brave people have stood up to the bullies doesn’t mean that the bullying never took place.

maybe you missed it but I'll ask again - where has anyone condoned death threats on here?!

Oh wow I wasn't aware that every "self styled woke" person on earth was on this thread!

It's disingenuous to say that JKR hasn't been cancelled because she's still working. Since her essay, her name online has changed to variations of "controversial writer JKR" because media don't be trans rights activists complaining.

And the Royal Academy apoligised and put the work back on sale. Not cancelled, mismanaged by the organisation.

Neatly ignoring why they removed it in the first place

"If she did get any threats I fully condemn them but the chances of them being from GC feminists are slim. Please link to receipts if you have them. I think Caroline Nokes is a nasty piece of work."

So when she says she has recieved threats and abuse because of her work with the GRA, you demand evidence and seek to dismiss her.

Its funny that isn't it.

"Neatly ignoring why they removed it in the first place"

The Royal Academy mismanaged the reaction to a small number of complaints.

Are people not allowed to complain now?

Or is it because it was a complaint about the wrong thing?

@cherryonthecakes

You can be a victim of cancel culture without someone completely destroying you financially and professionally. For example I'd say Woody Allen was cancelled but he's a wealthy man so had the means and connections to finance more films.

Somebody asked for an example that happened this year. Artist Jess de Wahls had her products removed from the Royal Academy gift shop after 8 (!) complaints about transphobia.

The feminism forum readers will undoubtedly have more but have you not heard about several female uni lecturers being pressured to quit because students find gender critical point of view hateful ? These are supposed to be the brightest students but they can't sit down and discuss a topic ?

I'm not sure that describing Woody Allen as a victim holds any merit.

The man is a paedophile.

"It's disingenuous to say that JKR hasn't been cancelled because she's still working. Since her essay, her name online has changed to variations of "controversial writer JKR" because media don't be trans rights activists complaining."

Its not. Its an accurate example of how someone really hasn't been cancelled. She doesn;t get called that in every article, a little google just shows that.

Oh dear making things up now?

Admit it. She hasn't been cancelled.

Woody Allen is a disgusting pedophile and is rightly cancelled - it just popped into my mind. Not the best example

Yes, I need evidence, thanks. Otherwise I will take it with a truckload of salt. Because I don't trust her. I've no need to do that for JKR, Kathleen Stock and Rosie Duffield. Because "woke" activists are luridly wishing rape and death on them everywhere you turn.

@cherryonthecakes

Woody Allen is a disgusting pedophile and is rightly cancelled - it just popped into my mind. Not the best example

Hear hear

The Royal Academy mismanaged the reaction to a small number of complaints.

Are people not allowed to complain now?

Or is it because it was a complaint about the wrong thing?

Why do you say they "mismanaged" it? You agree then they were wrong to jump to the TRAs' tune?

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Ah so, because its someone doing it that you don't like you decide that you don't believe them.Even

Also, Woody Allen was not cancelled. He has worked consitently throughout the 2000s.

Roman Polanski wasn't cancelled either, but claims to be a victim.

@vladmirsPoutine
I still love Fawlty Towers, but it does have problematic bits in (Manuel, I love him but fuck me, looking as a grown up at it now, they're so mean/racist to him!)
Also the rant by the major mentioning the N word.
I think it's good that we recognise that this isn't OK now and never really was even though it was widely accepted as '' normal. ''
I suppose if you are the creator you might sometimes feel judged.
They should think maybe reflect a bit in my opinion? Not automatically go on the defence, double down or whatever

@NoNotMeNoSiree

foxfinchfox That's nothing to do with what I actually said though. How about actually engaging with what I actually said instead of saying '' glad you agree '' to something that's presumably an argument you've made up in your own head and attributed to me?! Your post and others are interesting though, as it shows that the people who have a problem with wokeness seems to be those who have a problematic view towards others and don't want to be challenged themselves. Call a spade a spade lot. Say it like it is. What, why can't I say what I like about people anymore?!

I think it's you who haven't engaged with my point. You specifically referenced homophobic views.

Tell me, do you think telling lesbians they are bigots for not wanting to sleep with penises is homophobic or not? Do you think it isn't homophobia just because it's what the "faux progressives" argue?

Your post and others are interesting though, as it shows that the people who have a problem with wokeness seems to be those who have a problematic view towards others and don't want to be challenged themselves.

You seem to have this ass backwards. If I as a lesbian find it homophobic to be told by "progressives" what lesbians should do, how is this "having a problematic view towards others and not wanting to be challenged myself"? In this analogy, it's not me airing the homophobic views, is it? I'm the one who's objecting to them.

Or have you twisted it around because you really do believe that if someone says something you approve of on one "progressive" issue, they can't therefore be homophobes or sexists?

Let me ask you again - if someone says lesbians should sleep with cocks or they're bigots, why should I not call them out on their homophobia?

Or do you not think this is homophobic?

"Why do you say they "mismanaged" it? You agree then they were wrong to jump to the TRAs' tune?"

Because that's the term the Royal Academy used, and it expains exactly what they did, it was their fault, they dealt with the small number of complaints incorrectly then rectified it.

I wouldn't call it jumping to anyone's tune.

I didn't say anything about Woody Allen or Roman Polanski. Don't try to put words in my mouth.