Mil hit the dog

[LilyTheMink]

We have a 1 year old medium sized dog. He isn't badly behaved and doesn't normally jump up. When MIL arrived for Xmas, he was a little excited - but honestly nothing hyperactive at all.
He jumped around when MIL was hugging my daughter and I told him to get down. I turned my back and he must have done it again as suddenly he was sneezing and shaking his head. This is what he does when he's knocked his nose on something eg. the coffee table.
The kids told me that MIL had hit him.
I wasn't sure what to do and spend the rest of the time keeping him out of her way - although to be honest he did that himself anyway.
She's been horrible to our pets before - once flicking our 3 month off kitten off the table like he was a breadcrumb.
DH has just grown a spine and spoken to her about another ussue - she told our 10 yo DD she was "selfish and didn't think about other people" because she didn't want to wear the Xmas jumper DH had bought her. (This was said in private, but DD luckily told me as she was upset by it).
Wibu to tell her she's not welcome to ever come back if she shows aggression to our pets again, or speaks badly to our kids?

[quote ItIsntWhatYouThinkItIs]@SoniaFouler Clearly it was a violent 'flick' for the OP to bring it up.[/quote]
You can’t “flick” a cat/kitten from anything. That’s my point. The OP may well have meant to use another definition other than flick but if she did then the whole story begins to have some doubts cast over it. What else was said in the OP that actually meant something else, for example?

I've had my cat since he was 10 days old I would not react kindly at all if anyone flicked/swept/ pushed him off anywhere

The dog quite often gets a smack on the nose from the cat if he's cat bothering, he rarely yelps but it does cause him to shake his head and sneeze if they catch him in the right place. They have sensitive noses and it obviously hurts him so I doubt ops dc are lying

@SoniaFouler You can’t “flick” a cat/kitten from anything.

Actually yes you can.

@ItIsntWhatYouThinkItIs I think your perspective on life is skewed. As is your definition of animal cruelty.
Can see we're not going to agree. Glad I don't live in your world too where grandmothers can be cut out of children's lives at the drop of a hat. Your world sounds like a very self centred and potentially lonely world.
As to living with abuse. I have. And suffered the consequences. So you can f'ck right off on that front. You don't know my circumstances (any more than I know yours).
Best we agree to disagree.

Just clearing up a couple of points that keep bugging me about some comments.

I wish anyone could have seen the incident with the dog. Some of the adjectives about leaping, slobbering, urinating (?) animals being out of control just don't apply here. I hate dogs doing all of those things on me. (Although would deal with it very differently)

Whenever any of our immediate family hug one another or in a group, the dog comes along and puts his front paws on us - like he is standing up. We call it 'joining in'. 2 of his paws are still on the ground.

Perhaps I should have said 'reaching up with his front legs' instead of 'jumping up' because that image has set off the menacing dog brigade.

This is what he did to MIL and DD as they briefly hugged hello. Not at the front door, but in the kitchen. I said no and stopped him gently. Because she is a visitor and more than likely didn't want that. I turned my back and 1 SECOND later he was doing the sniffing sneezing etc.

Mil was staying for 3 days and wasn't all dressed up for Xmas, this was on 23rd.

Also, DD had a good reason not to wear the jumper - it was a 'comedy' one with a photo of her crush (a sports star) and she didn't want to wear it to church and be teased by her brother who is a fan of said sport.

I wouldn't really care what MIL or some rando's on the internet thought was a proportionate response. I know my kids, my animals, and my house rules, and they apply to everyone in the house. I also know my MIL.

If MIL cannot control her impulses to conform with my house rules as to how we treat humans and animals, then MIL is not welcome in my house, until she has learnt impulse control. Ditto for anyone else, regardless of hypothetical 'phobias'. If you have a phobia so strong that a kitten strikes terror into your heart so strong that you need to physically remove the kitten from being nearby you, you make your apologies and don't go somewhere there's a kitten. Common sense, surely.

We may meet up for meals etc elsewhere, but she would always have my eyes on her, since she cannot be trusted. The children would be encouraged to be vocal if she behaved in what we deem an unacceptable manner towards either them, or any animals that have no voice.

Can you read all my posts please . I've explained all about the flick for those struggling with the concept.

@LilyTheMink

Can you read all my posts please . I've explained all about the flick for those struggling with the concept.

That was to @SoniaFouler

I don’t know, I don’t even know if the OP has told the actual version of what happened during this event so it’s difficult to say what exactly happened really.

Well what we do know is that she's regularly nasty to kids and animals.

Maybe MIL is an alien and this is how they show kinship on Planet Whatthefuck!

My entire home is my dogs space. When a visitor walks into my home they ARE in my dogs space. My dogs don't jump about now because they're older, but at 1yo they were still learning manners and went through a stage of jumping up at people

Your poor visitors, why did you permit jumping up at all?
A dog may live in a home but it’s still an animal and animals need boundaries. By letting it think it’s in charge of the entire home you’re putting visitors at risk, especially young children or people who are nervous of dogs.

There’s nothing wrong with a dog having its own ‘safe space’ and having free roam of the rest of the house, as long as it doesn’t see itself as superior to the owners or their guests.

This thread is giving me the rage. So many people defending violence to animals. No wonder it so rife in this country. Sickening.

I'd have told her, in no uncertain terms, after she hit my pet the first time. This time she would have been told to stop or leave and never come back.

Why not just ask her straight out? MIL, did you hit the dog?

Her reaction will be more telling than her response. And I would not be inviting her back, ever again. Hate cruelty to animals, and it sounds like she is shit to you and DD too, so no loss not to have her about.

Whenever any of our immediate family hug one another or in a group, the dog comes along and puts his front paws on us - like he is standing up. We call it 'joining in'. 2 of his paws are still on the ground

To me that is ‘jumping up’, an over enthusiastic, sometimes dominance-related behaviour I don’t permit my dog to do. Ever. Dogs don’t ‘join in’ with hugs although they may feel left out and seek physical contact. Or if enough people have found the behaviour cute and laughed, dog learns to do it for attention.

Unfortunately it seems that physical contact wasn’t wanted by your MIL at that moment, and you’d already told dog off to no avail.

Maybe MIL didn’t want her tights ripped or clothes getting grubby/doggy, or just wanted a moment with her granddaughter without dog standing up against her.

Sometimes family members tolerate dogs but actually dislike things like ‘hugs’ (my mum being an example, she always wants reassurance my dog won’t jump at her legs as she has varicose veins!) Also dogs lick their bottoms and put their noses in bodily fluids (or worse) so some people get upset at a dog trying to sniff, lick or cosy up to them.

I think you need to clarify whether it was a proper whack or a tap on the nose. I'd not do either, but there's a big difference. Animals tend to be a lot rougher than humans when they play, or when they warn each other, hence the need to teach them that it hurts when they nip us. I doubt anything less than a proper whack is going to bother most dogs.

The dog is one year old, FFS!

Just about at the age when the training starts to kick in but also regresses. Anyone who has had a dog from a pup recognises the 12 - 15 month(ish) falter in behaviour.

Like OP our dog is allowed to greet us with a hug, up on his back legs. Especially DH who works away a lot.

But not visitors. He is, at 3, pretty solid with that one, bit at 1 was just beginning to understand.

At least OP knows her dog can be trained, his poor behaviours managed. Not so much with MIL.

@FateHasRedesignedMost

My entire home is my dogs space. When a visitor walks into my home they ARE in my dogs space. My dogs don't jump about now because they're older, but at 1yo they were still learning manners and went through a stage of jumping up at people

Your poor visitors, why did you permit jumping up at all?
A dog may live in a home but it’s still an animal and animals need boundaries. By letting it think it’s in charge of the entire home you’re putting visitors at risk, especially young children or people who are nervous of dogs.

There’s nothing wrong with a dog having its own ‘safe space’ and having free roam of the rest of the house, as long as it doesn’t see itself as superior to the owners or their guests.

My dogs don't think they're in charge of the entire home, they know I'M in charge because I'm the alpha. They have safe spaces for themselves too. But my home is their home. And all puppies jump when they're young. And then they learn manners. There's nothing 'poor' about my visitors, they're all dog owners themselves and wouldn't dream of hurting one of my dogs.

This thread is giving me the rage quite frankly.

@Mezmer

Honestly. How do some of you get through life when everything is so black and white is beyond me. No communication, no negotiation, no reflection. ‘I’ll cut you out of my life and my family’s life if you cross me.’

A lot of you on this thread are as bad as the MIL is by the sounds of it. People do shit things all the time. This woman sounds as if she’s a bit draconian in the way she pulls rank over kids and animals that get in her way. Not an abuser by any means.

Chucking her out of the house is not OPs call because she is not the blood relative like DP and her DCs. Don’t they get a say?

I doubt the dog cared after it finished its sneezing. Maybe it’ll learn that she’s alpha next time and do as it’s told, like it would have to learn to do if was in its canine pack.

Maybe the DC is selfish and could have just put the jumper on.

The kitten probably landed the right way up, like they tend to do when they fall off fences and out of trees.

Get some perspective everyone. There are many people overreacting here.

If This woman sounds as if she’s a bit draconian in the way she pulls rank over kids and animals that get in her way Isnt abusive what the hell do you think is in fact abuse.. So next time a child gets in my way especially in their own home, I can bop it on the nose? You ok with me hitting your child?

[quote Macaroni46]@Mezmer seems you and I are the only ones with any common sense 🤷‍♀️[/quote]
Or maybe the rest of us see something you dont? Like actual abuse .

@KeyLimePies

I mean she drove 5 hours to get to us so I couldn't throw her out.

You absolutely can ask her to leave. She’s been abusive and nasty to the most defenceless members of your family (I count pets as part of the family). Your poor DD and DDog must be on eggshells with her around.

This!

My father once did this with my GM, she was being vile to mum over Christmas so he told her apologise or get in the car. She went home, and good riddance!

It doesn't matter that she drove 5 hours or even 50. No amount of distance travelled makes it acceptable for her to lay hands or say awful things to anyone.

Stand up for your children (and pets) and get her told or make her leave.

It has given me the rage too, especially the amateur lawyers trying to prove I am an unreliable witness and picking apart exact meanings of words.

I didn't see the exact nature of the contact between MIL and the dog. I didn't see the exact nature of her strike.

By some of this reasoning, the fact that I didn't actually see the dog put his paws on her a second time means that may not have happened either, surely?

On the balance of probabilities given the outcome, I think he probably did get up again, and I think she probably did bop him on the nose.

Honestly OP just keep your animals away from your MiL on the rare occasions that she is with you. She's clearly terrible with animals even if she doesnt mean to be, so why go there? And despite what some on here would say it is fine for pets to be kept away from visitors who dont like them/are scared of them/have allergies etc they wont suffer irreparable harm from not having the free run of the house for limited periods.

OP no need to cross examine your DC or worry about posters picking apart your wording. Some love to be pedantic. Fwiw I take my kids at their word too, I don't immediately assume they're lying. Especially if they have nothing to gain from it!

More than anything your mil sounds like she thinks she can do whatever she likes without fear of admonishment. At the very least I'd be picking her up on shitty behaviour towards both DC and pets in future. Wouldn't wait for your DP to do it though, she might it be his mum but it's your joint home/DC/pets.

@LilyTheMink

It has given me the rage too, especially the amateur lawyers trying to prove I am an unreliable witness and picking apart exact meanings of words.

I didn't see the exact nature of the contact between MIL and the dog. I didn't see the exact nature of her strike.

By some of this reasoning, the fact that I didn't actually see the dog put his paws on her a second time means that may not have happened either, surely?

On the balance of probabilities given the outcome, I think he probably did get up again, and I think she probably did bop him on the nose.

Exactly just because you didn't see doesn't mean you should think maybe it didn't happen!