Mil hit the dog

[LilyTheMink]

We have a 1 year old medium sized dog. He isn't badly behaved and doesn't normally jump up. When MIL arrived for Xmas, he was a little excited - but honestly nothing hyperactive at all.
He jumped around when MIL was hugging my daughter and I told him to get down. I turned my back and he must have done it again as suddenly he was sneezing and shaking his head. This is what he does when he's knocked his nose on something eg. the coffee table.
The kids told me that MIL had hit him.
I wasn't sure what to do and spend the rest of the time keeping him out of her way - although to be honest he did that himself anyway.
She's been horrible to our pets before - once flicking our 3 month off kitten off the table like he was a breadcrumb.
DH has just grown a spine and spoken to her about another ussue - she told our 10 yo DD she was "selfish and didn't think about other people" because she didn't want to wear the Xmas jumper DH had bought her. (This was said in private, but DD luckily told me as she was upset by it).
Wibu to tell her she's not welcome to ever come back if she shows aggression to our pets again, or speaks badly to our kids?

@Sunflowers095

Never had anyone attempt to 'disciple' my children. They were well brought up thank you for your concern.

Just for the record I have never hit a dog. I have turned away from dogs which jump up so that it can absolutely ruin the back of my clothes rather than the front. I have told owners not to allow this to happen.

If you love your animals so much why would you allow them to jump up at others - doesn't make sense. Why would you think that it's enjoyable?

@EbonanzaScrooge

A dog is not an adult until 18 months. That is the same for any breed. Even after that they are still very young. They might noy really hit full maturity in terms of behaviour until they are about 3. I'm not saying that it takes 3 years to train them, but an occasional slip up in behaviour is not a sign of being badly trained, especially before the second birthday.

I don’t know anything about dogs… what do owners of young excitable puppies usually do when they know a guest is arriving? I can’t quite figure out why the puppy was able/allowed to jump up a second time. I can imagine the MIL reacting out of fear. But the thing with the kitten, and calling DD selfish, are really awful. I think getting DH on side is the key here.

I suspect because as most of us know, children are not always shining beacons of the absolute truth

Dogs don't lie though. The dog was behaving in a way a dog would behave after being hurt. The MIL hit the dog and hurt him. WTF is up with people on this forum? Why so desperate to make out that this woman isn't an evil fucking cunt?

@Blossomtoes

I think that you'll find you'll be prosecuted under the dangerous dogs act if your dog attacks/is found to be out of control on any property.

Just recently a dog was shot by police for attacking someone on its own property.

@RiojaRose

I don’t know anything about dogs… what do owners of young excitable puppies usually do when they know a guest is arriving? I can’t quite figure out why the puppy was able/allowed to jump up a second time. I can imagine the MIL reacting out of fear. But the thing with the kitten, and calling DD selfish, are really awful. I think getting DH on side is the key here.

The problem lies with people expecting you to shut the dog away.

Regardless of how long you keep your dog away from a new visitor, when the dog first sees them it'll be excitement. So you can lock it in another room but as soon as you open the door you have the problem you would have had at the front door.

Dogs learn from corrective behaviour and positive reinforcement, so there has to be occasions where family or friends are incorrectly greeted (jumping up) to then correct the dog and show them it's not appropriate to jump up.

The only thing that dog learned was going near MIL results in a smack, so it's scared of her. It learned nothing about the appropriateness of jumping up and greeting people.

@RiojaRose

Even if OP's Mil is scared of dogs, there are better ways to handle a dog that is jumping up than hitting them. And lashing out in fear is best case scenario here. For all we know, she may not have a fear of dogs.

[quote MyOtherCarIsAPorsche]@Blossomtoes

I think that you'll find you'll be prosecuted under the dangerous dogs act if your dog attacks/is found to be out of control on any property.

Just recently a dog was shot by police for attacking someone on its own property. [/quote]
Jumping up isn’t attacking. HTH.

@MyOtherCarIsAPorsche

Except a friendly dog jumping up in greeting is not attacking someone. Quite the opposite in fact. I'm not saying that the jumping behaviour shouldn't be corrected because it absolutely should be, in a way that doesn't involve hitting.

If anyone hurt my Dcat they'd never set foot in my home again - they're part of your family! You're their advocate, they cannot speak for themselves. Don't allow this vile bully to upset your daughter, and harm your pets!

@Blossomtoes

Any dog jumping up at someone is unacceptable behaviour. Still out of control isn't it?

I'm so happy to help you!

I see so many 'dog lovers' yanking on the leads around dog's necks -
showing the dog who is the 'leader of the pack'. Maybe it's dog owners you should be directing your ire at? Because they can't train their animals adequately enough to behave appropriately?

@Prescottdanni123 some smaller breeds are considered adult dogs around 9/10 months. It’s simple obedience for a dog to understand the down command even at a year. The dog has obviously been excited and not listened to the command suggesting that it’s either not been trained properly yet or testing it’s obedience boundaries.

It’s not like the dog is 3/4 months old and still in full puppy mode. Depending on the breed this could be a really sizeable dog and that can be quite scary for people who don’t like dogs. It’s not ok to let your dog jump on people that don’t like animals

[quote Prescottdanni123]@MyOtherCarIsAPorsche

Except a friendly dog jumping up in greeting is not attacking someone. Quite the opposite in fact. I'm not saying that the jumping behaviour shouldn't be corrected because it absolutely should be, in a way that doesn't involve hitting.[/quote]
A friendly dog jumping up and scratching/marking another's clothes/skin is never acceptable.

Let alone the dog that knocked my 13 month old grandson flying, who was toddling on the beach, having a whale of time, minding his own business. He had to go to A and E for sutures as the dog had left punctures above and below his eye.

@RoyalFamilyFan

So people are supposed to just put up with dogs jumping all over them?

There's a choice . It's Someone else's house - if You do t like their dog - don't visit . Easy really isn't it ? Their house - their space - their rules

Thanks for the replies. Really interesting that visitors sort of have to be prepared to be part of the training. I can imagine feeling attacked if a medium sized dog jumped at me twice. But as I don’t much like dogs I’ve never felt the need to learn about how to behave around them. I expect their owners to be on top of keeping their behaviour under control. I can’t imagine hitting a dog though, especially in its own home.

[quote MyOtherCarIsAPorsche]@Blossomtoes

Any dog jumping up at someone is unacceptable behaviour. Still out of control isn't it?

I'm so happy to help you!

I see so many 'dog lovers' yanking on the leads around dog's necks -
showing the dog who is the 'leader of the pack'. Maybe it's dog owners you should be directing your ire at? Because they can't train their animals adequately enough to behave appropriately?[/quote]
Jumping up is perfectly acceptable behaviour in this house. Don’t like it? Don’t visit. Easy. Our dog doesn’t jump up anywhere else but visitors to her house are fair game.

Fair game? @Blossomtoes

Nice.

The mind boggles. 🥺

The fact the dog was shaking it's head and sneezing suggests not only did she hit the dog, she hit it hard enough to cause discomfort and pain. My dogs have bumped their noses off things and have never done this. She's wrong to hit the dog. She's even more wrong to hit the dog hard.

This being said, whilst 1 year is technically a puppy, it's not puppy enough to be getting overexcited at visitors like this, lockdown pup or not. Unless I was well briefed on what training the owner wanted me to take part in for their dog when I arrived, then I'd be asking for the dogs lead, and leading it to another room until it had calmed down. Overexcited dogs jumping around can and frequently do, cause unintended injuries, usually to people. Ever had a broken nose from an exciting dog jumping around but not up?

Your dog is still jumping around not simply because it's a 'puppy', but because you've not managed the behaviour effectively. I love dogs, but I still expect peace from being bombarded by overexcited dogs at friends houses, as they know to expect from me when they visit me. The dogs aren't allowed to greet visitors at all until they're calm. They quickly switch on when they want something (ie - greeting a guest) that the best way to get what they want, is to be calm about, with really very minimal training.

Discipline doesn't equal abuse.

That being said, he likely won't bother her a second time. If you'd disciplined him, she wouldn't have to. And I agree with another poster - an unknown dog jumping up or around me gets a knee put up against it's chest, so it can't scratch me or hurt me. I'm absolutely allowed personal space, and if the owners don't like it, they should train their dogs better. I'm not entering into a wrestling match pushing dogs off me. A) I shouldn't have to, B) It easily encourages it further by 'making it a game'. Turning your back and ignoring a dog doing this is all well and good, until the dog physically hurts you.

Guests absolutely have the right to expect personal space away from animals over-excitedly jumping up or around them when they walk into someones homes. It's basic manners. The dog doesn't know this - but will if you teach it. It doesn't take even the most stubborn dogs that long to learn.

Jumping up really is a behaviour that needs never to be allowed to develop, a calm greeting is much better for everyone~ Especially the dog!
I had our first dog kicked by someone whom she jumped up at~ so have been very careful since then to do only a calm greeting.
One year old is plenty old enough to know not to jump up, or put dog in another room until everything is calm.
Not everyone likes dogs, and some can be really painful if they jump up raking one with their nails~Especially poodle crosses who often have talons in my experience.

If the dog had been really hurt, he or she would have made a noise.

Yanbu. She’s a horrible uncaring person. Hurting animals is never a good look no matter how folk try and justify it
I wouldn’t allow her back in your home again.

A terrible example to set young children also who should be taught patience, care and compassion imo.

'Regardless of how long you keep your dog away from a new visitor, when the dog first sees them it'll be excitement. So you can lock it in another room but as soon as you open the door you have the problem you would have had at the front door.'

As soon as the dog shows too much excitement when it's greeting guests, you return it back to the room and wait until it's calmed down. Again, and again, and again. Rinse and repeat.

It's annoying, and hard work for maybe the first 2-3 occasions until it clicks. 3 rescue dogs here. It's really not difficult to have calm dogs that learn over-excited behaviour isn't acceptable except at actual play time.

@jellybutton1

Thank you - you sound like a great, responsible and respectful dog owner. Animals deserve no less.

I always ask for permission to approach a dog - I have no qualms about appreciating well behaved and well looked after pets.

The saying that dogs resemble their owners goes for behaviour too.

@jellybutton1

The fact the dog was shaking it's head and sneezing suggests not only did she hit the dog, she hit it hard enough to cause discomfort and pain. My dogs have bumped their noses off things and have never done this. She's wrong to hit the dog. She's even more wrong to hit the dog hard.

This being said, whilst 1 year is technically a puppy, it's not puppy enough to be getting overexcited at visitors like this, lockdown pup or not. Unless I was well briefed on what training the owner wanted me to take part in for their dog when I arrived, then I'd be asking for the dogs lead, and leading it to another room until it had calmed down. Overexcited dogs jumping around can and frequently do, cause unintended injuries, usually to people. Ever had a broken nose from an exciting dog jumping around but not up?

Your dog is still jumping around not simply because it's a 'puppy', but because you've not managed the behaviour effectively. I love dogs, but I still expect peace from being bombarded by overexcited dogs at friends houses, as they know to expect from me when they visit me. The dogs aren't allowed to greet visitors at all until they're calm. They quickly switch on when they want something (ie - greeting a guest) that the best way to get what they want, is to be calm about, with really very minimal training.

Discipline doesn't equal abuse.

That being said, he likely won't bother her a second time. If you'd disciplined him, she wouldn't have to. And I agree with another poster - an unknown dog jumping up or around me gets a knee put up against it's chest, so it can't scratch me or hurt me. I'm absolutely allowed personal space, and if the owners don't like it, they should train their dogs better. I'm not entering into a wrestling match pushing dogs off me. A) I shouldn't have to, B) It easily encourages it further by 'making it a game'. Turning your back and ignoring a dog doing this is all well and good, until the dog physically hurts you.

Guests absolutely have the right to expect personal space away from animals over-excitedly jumping up or around them when they walk into someones homes. It's basic manners. The dog doesn't know this - but will if you teach it. It doesn't take even the most stubborn dogs that long to learn.

Absolutely! People say ''Only one year old'' but a dog at one should be able to greet people calmly without leaping up.

It doesn't take long.

So many untrained dogs about though , at moment.
A farmer had scatty ''He's only a pup-pee'' {Adult sized} dog run amok and try to attack his cattle and then his working dog~ He was entitled to shoot it.

Dogs need training to keep them and other people and animals safe.

I think there’s been a huge shift in understanding of how to treat dogs in the last 30 years or so. This may just be a matter of educating her better. When I was growing up in the 80s and tapping a dog on the nose to stop it doing unwanted stuff was often positioned as the kind way to discipline and train a pet. So if you let the dog jump up (and it’s really hard to see how MIL could have hit it’s nose if she was hugging a grandchild and it wasn’t jumping up) then this may just be the way she has always expected to tell a dog to stop.

I think you need a talk with her first, not a blanket ban or resentful surveillance.

@EbonanzaScrooge I’m not sure which small breeds you might be referring to? I have Chihuahuas (literally the smallest dogs you can get) and they are in no way considered adult at 9/10 months?
And no @oakleaffy, they wouldn’t necessarily. Mine wouldn't’ (and I have big dogs as well) they would be frightened and confused and would have come to find me. At which point, MIL or not, she’d have been down the road!!!