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Original poster

To Think Having ASD Doesn’t Entitle You to This?

313 replies

WheelieBinPrincess · 23/12/2021 12:42

Just moved into our own flat after many many years of renting/saving. Outskirts of London, zone 5, which explains why we’ve bought a flat and not a house, a flat was what we could afford. But it’s a nice place. Not a new build, for context, but not really old either. 70’s I think. We are on the ground floor. Above us live a single mum and her teenage son.

We’ve only been here three nights but have been kept up until 3am or so by what was quite obviously someone using headphones and shouting into a mouthpiece. DH was a gamer so I knew what was going on. Think ‘NOOOOOO!!!’ And ‘FUCCCCKKKKKKKK’ at random intervals. It’s incredibly loud.

We have a 3 month old baby. Sleep is obviously precious enough as it is, he still wakes 2/3 times in a night to feed.

Anyway, this morning we popped upstairs and the mum answers the door-explained that we just moved in, can hear all the shouting, please can it stop because it’s a very unsociable time of night to be dealing with that level of noise, we have a baby, DH has work etc etc. She was very apologetic and said it was her 15 year old son playing Fortnite, and she went to sleep with ear plugs in but that he wakes her up a lot too.

But then she said there wasn’t much she could do because her son has ASD, it’s his hobby and only way of being sociable as he games with others online, he considers these gamers his friends so he won’t be able to stop doing it. She said in time hopefully we’ll ‘filter out’ the noise. He gets carried away and he doesn’t do it on purpose but she said again about his ASD and repeated that that’s the way he is and there is nothing she can do. Then she said we hope we have a lovely Christmas and closed the door Confused

Now, I know this is Mumsnet and I’ve been here a long time. So, before anyone asks-

No, we can’t ‘move bedrooms’
No, we can’t move
No, we can’t afford a detached house.

But surely we shouldn’t just have to put up with it?! They’re having a laugh right?

OP posts:
Eleganz · 23/12/2021 16:51

@DoucheCanoe

The fact that anyone thinks that Autistic young adults need to be "accepted by society" is exactly the reason that parents of these young people get so fed up and dismissive in the first place.

They are part of society. They shouldn't have to fight for that right!

But people do have to fight for acceptance in society. That is a fact of life. Many marginalised groups, people with health conditions have all had to and continue to fight for acceptance and recognition by wider society. That may not be how it should be, but it is how it is.
TheHateIsNotGood · 23/12/2021 16:52

I'm so sorry OP about this, I could be the mother upstairs, but I'm not. My ds20 with ASD/autism does this too and it's got a lot, lot worse since the covid lockdowns started nearly 2 years ago - not least because all routines were destroyed and now there is nothing to get up for. At this time.

That doesn't help you of course - hopefully things will change soon for the lad upstairs so he'll have something else going on.

Sleepyblueocean · 23/12/2021 16:52

"So we should accept any and all behaviour if it is accompanied by a diagnosis of autism then?"

You really have a thing about autism. I would suggest changing the word autism in your posts to any other group eg women, and see how they read.

Offmyfence · 23/12/2021 16:52

@Floundery

I can't believe in 2020 I'm reading a thread about a teenage boy staying up late gaming and a mum who doesn't like conflict entitled 'to think ASD doesn't entitle you to this?' . Of course this isn't anything to do with being autistic

Have to agree with this. I am sympathetic for the OP but the inflammatory and ablist thread title is fucking awful.

Imagine replacing “ASD” with another protected characteristic in that title. OP would rightly be banned. But it’s just autism and we all agree they’re an awful bunch, so she can crack on… Angry

So how should OP have described the conversation without mentioning ASD? The mother offered this as a rationale as to why she's not going to challenge his behaviour,
DoucheCanoe · 23/12/2021 16:52

Not one person on here has said that the OP should just shut up and put up or that it's acceptable behaviour.

Of course it's not, but sometimes we aren't perfect and we let things slip especially when we're going through a tough time for whatever reason.

The OP has spoken with her neighbour and hopefully they'll be able to sort it out soon, if not then of course you follow the route of complaint but you need to give it time.

AlfonsoTheUnrepentant · 23/12/2021 16:54

OP, by all means - please do complain. Make it official. Complain to the council. After all, you put it it, you should have more "leverage" because you own while your neighbours rent.

And then make sure that you detail your complaints about your neighbours when it comes to selling your house. If you don't, you could be sued (as another poster helpfully pointed out).

Eleganz · 23/12/2021 16:54

@cansu

Eleganz It isn't a question of accepting their behaviour. This is a bit like saying 'Should we just accept this person has diabetes then?' Being autistic means that you have a differently functioning brain. The person cannot make themselves behave differently especially those who are profoundly or severely autistic.
But that is true for a range of mental health conditions and associated behaviours. That doesn't mean we accept that someone is behaving anti-socially because they have BPD for example and just allow that behaviour to continue.
AlfonsoTheUnrepentant · 23/12/2021 16:55

@Sleepyblueocean

"Such a constructive attitude which I am sure will help the acceptance of autistic young adults in society."

People with autism, wherever they lie on the spectrum, are already part of society.

But not an accepted part of society. After all, we engage in "anti-social behaviour". And it would be funny to cut their Internet cable. And ring their doorbell at 3am.
AlfonsoTheUnrepentant · 23/12/2021 16:57

So we should accept any and all behaviour if it is accompanied by a diagnosis of autism then?

We accept it from NTs, @Eleganz. Why should it be different for autistic people?

Eleganz · 23/12/2021 16:57

@DoucheCanoe

Not one person on here has said that the OP should just shut up and put up or that it's acceptable behaviour.

Of course it's not, but sometimes we aren't perfect and we let things slip especially when we're going through a tough time for whatever reason.

The OP has spoken with her neighbour and hopefully they'll be able to sort it out soon, if not then of course you follow the route of complaint but you need to give it time.

I suggest you reread OP's first post.

She says her neighbour hopes that "in time" OP will learn to filter out the noise and there is nothing more she can do. The neighbour has made no commitment to try anything to sort it out.

Floundery · 23/12/2021 16:57

This reply has been withdrawn

Message from MNHQ: This post has been withdrawn

AlfonsoTheUnrepentant · 23/12/2021 16:57

But that is true for a range of mental health conditions and associated behaviours.

Autism is not a mental health condition, @Eleganz. It is a developmental condition.

AlfonsoTheUnrepentant · 23/12/2021 16:58

@Floundery

The mother offered this as a rationale as to why she's not going to challenge his behaviour

If the mother had (for example) “it’s because were black/Muslim/Jewish - it’s our culture and we can’t help it” would the obvious dog-whistle in the title have been clearer to the hard-of-thinking here?

Oh, MN would have shut that down so fast your head would spin. But it's ok to take lumps out of autistic people. This is just the latest example.
Eleganz · 23/12/2021 17:00

@AlfonsoTheUnrepentant

So we should accept any and all behaviour if it is accompanied by a diagnosis of autism then?

We accept it from NTs, @Eleganz. Why should it be different for autistic people?

No we don't. Anti-social behaviour is tackled under a range of legislation.
Senmumm2021 · 23/12/2021 17:00

I have two autistic children. They don't need to be playing games loudly at 3am to relax. One of mine is an horrific sleeper, doesn't mean she gets to do whatever she wants whenever she wants. It's still lights out, calm time during the night.

ASC is not an excuse for not parenting.

DoucheCanoe · 23/12/2021 17:02

@Eleganz, just because it happens it doesn't make it right.

You wouldn't find a thread about any other protected group complaining about how they use it as an excuse, telling them to get mythical help to benefit you or laughing about causing further disruption to their lives.

Neuro-diversity isn't a problem that needs to be fixed, society needs to realise that they need to be more tolerant.

We make allowances for adults with personality or mental health disorders when they do something wrong but Autistic children are fair game it seems.

Floundery · 23/12/2021 17:02

This reply has been withdrawn

Message from MNHQ: This post has been withdrawn

cansu · 23/12/2021 17:02

joobleydoo
I have two kids with asd one with severe, profound autism, learning difficulties, autism and epilepsy. He cannot speak or understand and has severe challenging behaviour. He cannot be reasoned with and attempts to prevent obsessive behaviour end in violence and meltdowns. Professionals have come and gone and been unable to change him.
I have another child with more moderate disabilities who is charming and gentle. She is still very disabled but is easy to manage. I can tell her no and she will comply even if she is not happy. There are tricky moments but still she would not cause any issues for neighbours. If I just had dd, I would probably say that I would never allow my asd dc to cause such horrific noise problems for my neighbour etc etc.

My point is that some people with asd are intractable and their condition is such that rules and conventions cannot be applied to them. The only solution to this would be to provide such individuals and their families with suitable accommodation where they will not impact their neighbours. However this accommodation is not available to people who rent their homes unless they are wealthy. Unless someone has the funds to rent or buy a detached property, I am not sure what they are meant to do.

We had terrible issues with some of our neighbours over the years. I hated it. I was however desperately trying to keep my son and my other family members alive and functioning to some degree. This thread is full of ignorance about the reality of asd for some families. Some of this ignorance comes from those who know little about profound, complex neurological disabilities and challenging behaviour. They are lucky to know so little.

ghostmouse · 23/12/2021 17:02

My ds has adhd and asd and also was a gamer.

We had a rule a where he had to be off the head set by 11 pm. He could still play but couldn’t speak to his friends.

We had meltdowns, abuse all sorts but I stuck to it. No way was that going to happen at night. I needed sleep

Eleganz · 23/12/2021 17:05

[quote DoucheCanoe]@Eleganz, just because it happens it doesn't make it right.

You wouldn't find a thread about any other protected group complaining about how they use it as an excuse, telling them to get mythical help to benefit you or laughing about causing further disruption to their lives.

Neuro-diversity isn't a problem that needs to be fixed, society needs to realise that they need to be more tolerant.

We make allowances for adults with personality or mental health disorders when they do something wrong but Autistic children are fair game it seems.[/quote]
My point is that it is not a free for all. There are limits to what behaviour can be tolerated even taking into account the individual. This is just as true for those with mental health conditions for example as I have previously pointed out.

Screaming and shouting whilst gaming regularly at 3 am so that it impact neighbours is, in my opinion, on the other side of what is acceptable even with tolerance. I think many would have been far more sympathetic if it had been 10 pm for example.

Sleepyblueocean · 23/12/2021 17:06

None of the teenagers/young adults with autism that I know have hurt or been abusive to members of the public. I know that several have been on the receiving end of such behaviour including one case that ended in a prosecution. Attitudes that promote the belief that people with autism are not part of society, cause this.

Itsnotover · 23/12/2021 17:07

This sounds like a nightmare. But without knowing much about the son it's hard to comment. Some autistic kids will trash the whole house if they're upset and the parent ends up doing anything to appease them.

This is never an ideal situation but believe me when I say that it's extremely difficult to access support for people with autism.

GiftedGifted · 23/12/2021 17:08

@WheelieBinPrincess
I am sorry to hear about the troubles you have had with your neighbors.
Having an autistic child is really difficult and most parents of children with SEN really struggle on a daily basis (I know this as I have cared for an Autistic family member and have ADHD myself).

However, it is important that you address this issue without fail. It’s not acceptable for the mother to expect you to be sympathetic when she is not reciprocating it.
Please speak to her again as she is being very inconsiderate.
If she is not able to manage his behavior, she needs to look into alternative accommodation (which is what we had to do)
Whilst I appreciate this might not be an option for everyone, either way this for her as a parent to handle).

picklemewalnuts · 23/12/2021 17:08

Some behaviours aren't typical, and potentially attract unwelcome attention from ignorant people. In those situations we educate the onlooker to accept the behaviours that aren't typical. If a behaviour doesn't do any harm, then there's no need to amend it.

Some behaviours cause problems for everyone else and those need changing if possible, regardless of the diagnosis of the person exhibiting them. Excessive/antisocial noise, flashing, aggression- those kinds of things have to be managed so they don't impact everyone else.

Some behaviours aren't acceptable.

DoucheCanoe · 23/12/2021 17:09

@Eleganz apologies, I've moved on from the OP tbh.

I have a lot of sympathy for her in thesiyation she's in.

Your posts however need to be answered, your ignorance and attitude towards Autistic individuals absolutely need to be challenged.

Thankfully I haven't met anyone with such obvious prejudice in real life but I can only assume there are more out there.

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