To Think Having ASD Doesn’t Entitle You to This?

[WheelieBinPrincess]

Just moved into our own flat after many many years of renting/saving. Outskirts of London, zone 5, which explains why we’ve bought a flat and not a house, a flat was what we could afford. But it’s a nice place. Not a new build, for context, but not really old either. 70’s I think. We are on the ground floor. Above us live a single mum and her teenage son.

We’ve only been here three nights but have been kept up until 3am or so by what was quite obviously someone using headphones and shouting into a mouthpiece. DH was a gamer so I knew what was going on. Think ‘NOOOOOO!!!’ And ‘FUCCCCKKKKKKKK’ at random intervals. It’s incredibly loud.

We have a 3 month old baby. Sleep is obviously precious enough as it is, he still wakes 2/3 times in a night to feed.

Anyway, this morning we popped upstairs and the mum answers the door-explained that we just moved in, can hear all the shouting, please can it stop because it’s a very unsociable time of night to be dealing with that level of noise, we have a baby, DH has work etc etc. She was very apologetic and said it was her 15 year old son playing Fortnite, and she went to sleep with ear plugs in but that he wakes her up a lot too.

But then she said there wasn’t much she could do because her son has ASD, it’s his hobby and only way of being sociable as he games with others online, he considers these gamers his friends so he won’t be able to stop doing it. She said in time hopefully we’ll ‘filter out’ the noise. He gets carried away and he doesn’t do it on purpose but she said again about his ASD and repeated that that’s the way he is and there is nothing she can do. Then she said we hope we have a lovely Christmas and closed the door

Now, I know this is Mumsnet and I’ve been here a long time. So, before anyone asks-

No, we can’t ‘move bedrooms’
No, we can’t move
No, we can’t afford a detached house.

But surely we shouldn’t just have to put up with it?! They’re having a laugh right?

Oh my god for the love of Christ and monkeys please do not slate me for making a comment about the fact they rent and we own.

This had taken years, to own a flat on the outskirts, we are okay earners and didn’t have parental help. We are mid/late thirties. It’s really not a case if ha ha you rent we own

This is very frustrating to read.

I have a son with ADHD, he's still under assessment for ASD. He's incredibly loud when he has a meltdown. He's not 'allowed' to play his music between certain times, but then he's also not 'allowed' to hit me- he still does! We have to stop his music at the cut off time, ironically the meltdown that this often causes creates even more noise! 🤦‍♀️ No it's not acceptable and no it's not fair on the neighbours but I can assure you we have tried a long list of different strategies over the years, we certainly don't just let him get away with it and use his disability as an excuse. It might vary by area but 'support' is non existent here.

The OP hasn't herself with the thread title. My experience is that people who write that sort of title aren't actually looking for any advice. Maybe she should ask for it to be changed and people's reactions will change.

@sadpapercourtesan

To be fair to *@Eleganz* there are indeed educational resources for parents of autistic children run by various charities. We attended a 10 week course when our ds was diagnosed. It was quite useful on how to navigate the school system, and very useful in terms of meeting other parents in the same boat and sharing tips (mutual support for coping with ignorance and bigotry, mostly)

I have never - and neither has anyone else I know (which is quite a lot of people, as I am autistic, have an autistic child and have worked with autistic children for 25 years) heard of anyone being given money/support/a grant of any sort to help with proofing their home against the noise an autistic child makes. Ever. It doesn't happen.

The posters who are making these derisory suggestions know damn well it doesn't happen, by the way. They don't care. "Get support from a charity or something" is ignorant-bigot-shorthand for "I don't care what happens to you, but you're inconveniencing ME, so find a way of solving it or I'll get the law on you".

Best ignored, on the whole.

@Eleganz's point was not about educational resources. It was about "help and support".

Eleganz also posits "I think people need to take a look at the relevant legislation as to what constitutes a statuary nuisance. Regular noise at unsociable hours is a statuary nuisance and is not acceptable."

"Either the occupier has to abate the noise or they can be served with notice and fined or charged for works performed by the council to abate the noise."

@sadpapercourtesan

To be fair to *@Eleganz* there are indeed educational resources for parents of autistic children run by various charities. We attended a 10 week course when our ds was diagnosed. It was quite useful on how to navigate the school system, and very useful in terms of meeting other parents in the same boat and sharing tips (mutual support for coping with ignorance and bigotry, mostly)

I have never - and neither has anyone else I know (which is quite a lot of people, as I am autistic, have an autistic child and have worked with autistic children for 25 years) heard of anyone being given money/support/a grant of any sort to help with proofing their home against the noise an autistic child makes. Ever. It doesn't happen.

The posters who are making these derisory suggestions know damn well it doesn't happen, by the way. They don't care. "Get support from a charity or something" is ignorant-bigot-shorthand for "I don't care what happens to you, but you're inconveniencing ME, so find a way of solving it or I'll get the law on you".

Best ignored, on the whole.

Hopefully that does not typify the opinions of all parents with autistic children.

"I don't care if my child adversely affects your quality of life through their anti-social behaviour you should just be ignored because I can't get a grant to do anything"

Such a constructive attitude which I am sure will help the acceptance of autistic young adults in society.

OP's neighbour should have at least told OP what she had tried to do to minimise the impact of the behaviour if nothing else.

@Sleepyblueocean

The OP hasn't herself with the thread title. My experience is that people who write that sort of title aren't actually looking for any advice. Maybe she should ask for it to be changed and people's reactions will change.

Too late. When someone tells you who they are, believe them.

If you own then can you look at soundproofing? It might help but doesn’t help with flanking noise but could help with voices / shouting.

If they rent then complain complain complain, they’re being anti social and it isn’t on.

They obviously can’t soundproof their side of it though. Just keep complaining op.

You shouldn’t have to live with this problem

@alphonsotheunrepentant

Strawman away my friend. I said nothing about grants for soundproofing. Help and support is a range of things including education to support managing challenging behaviours.

@Eleganz you clearly know fuck all 🤬

Have you tried to interact or get any meaningful help from those charities/organisations because I have?!

I have a teen DS who has Autism and recently been diagnosed severe depression and anxiety. He can't be hospitalised as an impatient in a CAMHS unit because they aren't equipt to deal with his co-morbid diagnosis (i.e. yes too Autistic for their liking), he can't get counselling to manage his aggression because he disengages when he's uncomfortable, he hasn't been at school since September because he isn't Autistic enough for a 1:1 or specialist help and has developed crippling social anxiety.

We don't qualify for DLA because he's "high functioning" (although we're in the process of appealing this) so can't get any funding or help from organisations specialising in Autism.

As it stands we are at home 24/7 on (thankfully for now) paid leave, DS has been admitted and discharged twice from the local children's unit for trying to harm/kill himself in the last 6 weeks. He's medicated in the day and has to be sedated at night as this is when he's at his worst - we've been threatened, had knives held up to us, he's jumped out of windows during raging meltdowns at 2am because we've told him to go to bed or quiet down. We've restrained him, called the police and had to drive to find him before he manages to impulsively seriously harm himself.

Shouting the odd swear word would be an absolute dream for us right now because the help isn't there despite what your Google search tells you.

I work in this sector and we are MASSIVELY underfunded, understaffed so we are only able to help a select few.

[quote Eleganz]@alphonsotheunrepentant

Strawman away my friend. I said nothing about grants for soundproofing. Help and support is a range of things including education to support managing challenging behaviours.[/quote]
I am not your friend. My friends don't lie about me. You did.

The thread title doesn’t offend me at all (I am autistic), people do use ASD as an excuse for poor behaviour.

Sorry if I’ve offended anyone by saying that - I don’t mean to.

@Eleganz my autistic child is at university, is too polite and considerate for his own good, and has considerably better social skills than you so, as evinced by your posts on this thread

No amount of bluster is going to cover the stupidity (and cruelty) of your attitude. The "help and support" you referred to doesn't exist. Parents of autistic kids are not magicians. And the vast majority of us do not allow our children to run riot or upset our neighbours, if it is within our power to prevent it, any more than parents of NT children do.

There is no magic wand for challenging behaviour. Who do you think will come round and help this parent deal with her 15 year old having a meltdown at 11pm because he isn't allowed to use his game system?

It really is not that simple. If it was, I guess the mum would have already done it as it is probably disturbing her too.

I think that the OP will make numerous complaints and will get nowhere. She could well end up in a worse situation.

"Such a constructive attitude which I am sure will help the acceptance of autistic young adults in society."

People with autism, wherever they lie on the spectrum, are already part of society.

I can see both sides here. It isn't acceptable to be shouting and swearing at 3 in the morning. I know someone in the exact same situation, her neighbours son is now in his 20s, he's never worked or gone to college, he just sleeps in the day and games all night.

But your neighbour is perhaps at her wits end and ground down trying to deal with her son, so she's taking the path of least resistance here. I don't think it's fair to say the mum is lazy, her life might be really difficult.

I have two kids with ASD and no way would I allow them to behave like this. I have strict limits on gaming etc because I know it's addictive and I don't want them to detach from the real world and be immersed in gaming.

I think it's possible to have sympathy for the family whilst also taking action to improve the situation such as complaining to the landlord. Comparing the noise with a baby crying is silly, as babies crying cannot be avoided. Likewise if the noise was due to a meltdown.

@Floundery

We don’t know she hasn’t *@Eleganz* - a few months after my first parenting course DS got sensory overwhelm and - despite 3 adults in the room, injured another child. Should I string him up and let you throw rotten eggs at him?

We know nothing about this woman apart from what is in the OP.

Neither does OP because her interact with the woman was for her to say there was nothing she could do and shut the door in her face. That does not seems like a reasonable thing to do to a neighbour raising a concern with you.

@alphonsotheunrpentant.

No I didn't. I won't be responding to any more of your posts.

@Sleepyblueocean

"Such a constructive attitude which I am sure will help the acceptance of autistic young adults in society."

People with autism, wherever they lie on the spectrum, are already part of society.

So we should accept any and all behaviour if it is accompanied by a diagnosis of autism then?

The fact that anyone thinks that Autistic young adults need to be "accepted by society" is exactly the reason that parents of these young people get so fed up and dismissive in the first place.

They are part of society. They shouldn't have to fight for that right!

OP, I'm sorry you're dealing with unacceptable noise, you must feel so gutted having just bought your flat.

As a parent of two autistic children I find it very uncomfortable that some (not all by any means) posters have felt it's ok to talk about autism being used as an "excuse". It's a really offensive generalisation and it sweeps my children into a pile of "others".

It's also lazy on the part of those making such comments, given the overwhelming number of parents of autistics who've posted on this thread that such antisocial behaviour is not tolerated.

And, just to be clear, the specific situation that's being commented on here is of a teenage autistic with enough language and comprehension to be able to connect socially with others via gaming - and a parent who is disturbed by the noise herself it wears ear plugs rather than finding a way to tackle the issue. (Ie We are not commenting on a hypothetical situation with a different autistic child with a different needs profile- so please, to any worried parents reading this, don't assume the comments for this situation would also apply to your own, they might not.)

In terms of practical routes forward, I think there are several helpful suggestions on this thread, I would echo:

1. Knock on the family's door nightly if needs be, ie every time you are woken, wake the mother. Once it becomes her problem directly she may be more motivated to tackle it.

1. Give her a short timeframe and say if there is still noise past a set time (eg 10pm) you will raise a complaint with the council.

1. You could suggest applying for funding (as a pp said) for soundproofing her son's room. However I'd suggest that should be a last resort as it still doesn't tackle the root issue.

Eleganz
It isn't a question of accepting their behaviour. This is a bit like saying
'Should we just accept this person has diabetes then?'
Being autistic means that you have a differently functioning brain. The person cannot make themselves behave differently especially those who are profoundly or severely autistic.