“Please have lunch ready for 1pm. Thankyou.”

[diydh]

I’m interested to know if anyone else’s husband would say this in the morning before disappearing into his office for several hours. Please be honest.

YABU - yes, fair enough
YANBU - no, he is being quite bossy

Does he have arms and legs?
If so, I'd tell him to stick that lunch up his arse.

I think you should go back to work.

No - because he’s retired. However, when we were on a diet recently, requiring a cooked brunch, he would cook it for the start of my lunch break, and if I had meetings, I asked once or twice if he could vary the time accordingly.
I wouldn’t be offended, if he was working and I wasn’t, to be asked to make dinner for him at a specific time, because that’s what we do - try to make life easier for each other!
In your case, context is everything: I’ve read all of your posts on the thread, and I think you’re over-analysing it (possibly because you are attending therapy), but given the pleasant manner he made his request in, I would agree that he just thought you wouldn’t mind.
What would he have said if you had replied “oh! I can’t today, sorry love, I have a hair appointment”? The answer to that might give you more of a clue to whether he was being peremptory or not…

I don't get it.

OP chooses not to work. Two children are of upper school age and the third in their last year of primary. He works long and hard hours according to OP. He pays for the house, the bills, for himself, for the children, and OP. OP contributes nothing financially.

He's obviously factoring when he can eat around the work he's doing, to support his own family. And says "please do lunch for 1pm." He doesn't bark "make me a sandwich now". Please do lunch for 1pm. The animal.

And yet, OP should be up in arms that the food he's paid for, she should prepare his lunch from, because he's asked for a time that suits his busy working day.

So, presumably, OP should be quite happy to make and eat her own lunch, with food paid for, by him, from the work he does, and then tell him to make his own? She should contribute nothing back because he's technically capable of making it himself.

PP is absolutely right that this is exactly what is referred to many a time as a "cocklodger" when it's the man in OPs position.

How dare he ask for lunch to fit in around the job that provides everything for OP and the children. Why are you not out on a spa day OP? LTB.

It seems to me that generally you have a good relationship. Taking on board his cultural upbringing, you could say that the way he is speaking to you is not courteous or respectful and you would like him to think about that. You are not a servant or a household appliance and you would like him to think about that too. Sulking and making a fuss is also not courteous or respectful either.

No, you're right, you don't get it @MollysDolly

It sounds as if you and your husband get on well so long as you both want exactly the same. He doesn't want you to work, you don't want to work, fine and dandy. But the test of a marrriage is how you both cope when you want slightly different things. Do you compromise? Does he always get what he wants? Or do you? Do you sometimes get what you want even if it's not exactly what he wants, and does he do it with a good grace? Can you even talk about it?

A person can be very loving and caring and also very controlling. It must be hard to live with a man who expects you to want what he wants all the time. Gradually that would wear away at your sense of who you really are, especially if you do love him and want him to be happy.

It’s not about the division of labour being unfair. It’s about his apparent attitude that OP is at his beck and call.

I am also wondering what will happen when he retires.

Does he then get to do nothing while you continue to do all the cooking, clearing up, laundry etc? If so, will you be ok with that?

@Clymene

No, you're right, you don't get it *@MollysDolly*

Correct. And it's not through inability to read the situation.

I’m sorry I haven’t been able to reply to everyone. I can understand why some people might say I’m the ‘cocklodger,’ but it’s not really like that. At least he has never made me feel like that. There were many years when he was travelling and working non-stop. He has never had fixed working hours as he is self-employed so he has worked evenings, weekends and whenever he needed to and he wanted that flexibility. It wasn’t always easy, but this has been my norm and realistically, I had no choice in the matter. If I had been working as well, who knows where we’d be now. He doesn’t care about me contributing money and he was always very clear on that. It’s possibly partly cultural with him, but also he wanted to be able to go at his businesses unimpeded and still have a family life. Anyone who has lived with a workaholic will understand what it’s like. I don’t think he will ever retire. He will still be investing and all the other things he does. I have no idea what he’s doing half the time. It’s very complicated and confusing to me.

As for whether I’m happy to the op who asked - yes mostly. But I also have times when I feel anxious. I’m not saying other people don’t feel like that, obviously, for all kinds of reasons. But for me, I do think some of it is because he has fixed expectations that he thinks I should want to fulfil. The food thing is one of them. But also just being around and available, eg. I have never been away without him. Things like that.

Prick. No chance.

Are you Asian? I am and this is often a norm. I broke that norm and I go away on my own all the time. What is stopping you? Let him sulk. Call his bluff and go anyway. Somewhere within the UK.

I would feel more than anxious in this situation. I would feel suffocated.

What would happen if you just met a friend for lunch or went for a long walk or went to the shops.
What would he do for lunch then? Would he sulk?

OP I think you need to forget about the cocklodger stuff: this is a complete red herring. There’s clearly no resentment at all from him that you don’t work so put that to one side.

It sounds as if - within the parameters of his worldview - he is considerate and courteous. He clearly is not trying to wind you up or be unkind. This is, in his mind, an entirely appropriate way for a man to talk to his wife. I don’t know if he’s a narcissist or not and it doesn’t really matter: he clearly thinks this is the right way for a man to interact with wife.

The fact that you have not worked for years and have facilitated his lifestyle has contributed to this because it has increased his power and you have given the impression that you are fine with this so there’s never been any pushback. This can’t be helped now but the fact is that if you want to change the dynamic here you will have to take the lead. His default now is that he is active and autonomous and you are passive and basically an adjunct to his life.

That apparently suited you for a while and now doesn’t. And that’s OK; you are allowed to change your perspective.

I don’t know your husband so I have no way of knowing whether this is something he can come to terms with over time or if it is a complete dealbreaker for him.

But the fact is you clearly want to reframe your relationship in a way which gives you more autonomy.

The reasons why work or some other outside focus will help are myriad. But the most important one is that it will help you stop automatically seeing everything through the lens of his needs. You need to do this if you want to have a chance of getting your life back. Ultimately whether or not your marriage is going to survive you will be in a better position if you have something else in your life.

@thepeopleversuswork

OP I think you need to forget about the cocklodger stuff: this is a complete red herring. There’s clearly no resentment at all from him that you don’t work so put that to one side.

It sounds as if - within the parameters of his worldview - he is considerate and courteous. He clearly is not trying to wind you up or be unkind. This is, in his mind, an entirely appropriate way for a man to talk to his wife. I don’t know if he’s a narcissist or not and it doesn’t really matter: he clearly thinks this is the right way for a man to interact with wife.

The fact that you have not worked for years and have facilitated his lifestyle has contributed to this because it has increased his power and you have given the impression that you are fine with this so there’s never been any pushback. This can’t be helped now but the fact is that if you want to change the dynamic here you will have to take the lead. His default now is that he is active and autonomous and you are passive and basically an adjunct to his life.

That apparently suited you for a while and now doesn’t. And that’s OK; you are allowed to change your perspective.

I don’t know your husband so I have no way of knowing whether this is something he can come to terms with over time or if it is a complete dealbreaker for him.

But the fact is you clearly want to reframe your relationship in a way which gives you more autonomy.

The reasons why work or some other outside focus will help are myriad. But the most important one is that it will help you stop automatically seeing everything through the lens of his needs. You need to do this if you want to have a chance of getting your life back. Ultimately whether or not your marriage is going to survive you will be in a better position if you have something else in your life.

OP, this is a good post with some sensible advice. I agree, ignore the 'cocklodger' stuff that is coming from other people with their own issues, and is fundamentally nothing to do with your situation and focus on how you would like to change things to suit the way you feel now, and the wishes you have now. It is, absolutely, allowed to change your mind about how you live. It is allowed and should in fact be encouraged for you to put yourself first, and stop seeing yourself primarily as a facilitator of the activities of others.

Best wishes.

This is very sad, he treats you like a housekeeper or domestic employee. Sure he might be nice at other times, but that’s what he’s doing, he’s treating you like domestic help.

This must have eroded your self confidence, self esteem and dignity.

I guess you’re suited though he wanted soneone who would behave like this and you agreed to do it. Many of us, myself included would have told him to go fuck himself if he expected us to stay home. Never mind ordering food from us like we were a servant.

Also what do your kids think? Do they hear him behave like this? What sort of role models do you feel you’re giving them in terms of equality and mutual respect?

thepeopleversuswork and Orreries others - Thankyou. What I am taking away from all this is that I’m going to do some volunteering in some capacity. I realise I need some headspace that’s not just about him and my kids. To be honest, I was in that frame of mind before lockdown, but then lost track with all the home school and everything else, not to mention having him WFH. I’m feeling the need to get galvanised. Thankyou for all the comments.

CaliforniaDrumming - yes he is Asian and from an Islamic culture.

Bluntness - there are different types of disrespect and different family structures. I’m focusing on what I perceive to be the negative aspect of my dynamic with DH, but that’s not all there is that the kids see.

Please be aware some of the posts vilifying your DH are from man haters.
Some poor woman followed the advice given on here, left her husband and very much regretted it.

@Bollindger

Please be aware some of the posts vilifying your DH are from man haters. Some poor woman followed the advice given on here, left her husband and very much regretted it.

Only a total lunatic would end her marriage because a bunch of strangers on the internet told her to.

@Bollindger

Please be aware some of the posts vilifying your DH are from man haters. Some poor woman followed the advice given on here, left her husband and very much regretted it.



I think that sounds like a good idea @diydh

You are a person who is worthy of respect, with opinions and priorities.

Quite bossy, needs this Christmas song to cheer up fumacrom.com/3GUGM

Ah, I get the cultural thing now. A lot of Asian men, my own husband included, are very driven workaholics because they come from cultures where there is no social security or safety net if they fail. And they have the responsibility of parents.

I am not asking you to leave your DH but I am glad you are considering volunteering and getting some space for yourself. You are not a cocklodger. That concept does not exist in our cultures. But you should claw back some independence. Everything can't be about him.

I think you need an Asian therapist who understands these things but that can wait.

Some poor woman followed the advice given on here, left her husband and very much regretted it.

One woman? Wow. Wonder how many have either left their husband and been thankful for MNers' advice, and how many ignored MNers' advice, stayed with their abusive husbands and lived to regret it...

Op, re your husband being a narcissist. I think it’s something I’d ignore given that in my experience over many decades in a culture where men are treated very differently it can often come across that they’re narcissist to when they’re in fact only a product of their upbringing.