To think I should get tough with dd?

[bendmeoverbackwards]

My oldest dd is 20 and currently unvaccinated for Covid due to a severe needle phobia. She wants the vaccine but just doesn't feel able to have it.

We had 3 sessions at the vaccine centre back in September/October. They were brilliant with her and very patient and she got as far as sitting in the chair. But when they came near her with the needle she freaked out and pulled away.

Decided to leave it for a while as it was traumatic both for her and for me.

Then someone told me about a therapist who apparently has had 100% success rate for needle phobia. Don't know exactly how it works, it's not really talking therapy and not hypotherapy. But it works and I've many people raving about her. Dd agreed to see her at a cost of £175/session. She's had 2 sessions then the therapist recommended one more then a visit to the vaccine centre straight afterwards where she would be on the phone if needed.

This is booked in for tomorrow morning. However dd said today she didn't think it would work because she couldn't even cope with putting a covid test up her nose (she has a thing about her body being invaded).

I know it's not her fault but I'm a bit disappointed at her attitude. It's almost as if she is wanting/expecting it not to work.

I'm wondering if I've been too soft/sympathetic? What would you do to maximise the chance of success tomorrow?

@Marvellousmadness stop saying things that aren’t true. I didn’t ‘freak out’. Throughout FOUR visits to the vaccine clinic over the past 3 months I have remained calm and supportive. But it’s horrible to see your child in so much distress, what parent wouldn’t be?

As for the holiday, not all dc of this age want to holiday with their mates. Don’t know why I have to justify this but she’s a quiet girl with a small circle of friends. We are a close family and I know the days of family holidays are numbered but for now her choice would he to come with us.

Buy her a copy of "Feel the Fear and Do It Anyway"

And how many students can afford holidays? She does have a part time job and has some savings but she’s due to move to a flat share soon and will need the money for rent and bills.

I don’t see why I am getting a slating for my daughter wanting to come on holiday with us.

I went on holiday with my mum when I was 25ish and engaged and lived with my fiancé. We had a great time 🤷‍♀️ of all of the issues in the post surely her wanting to go on holiday with her parents at 20 is the least of anyones worries 🥴

I hate needles but I didn't even feel the covid needle. Can you do that thing we do with small children where you put your body in a way so just her arm is free? and for the nurse to tell her its going to be done on counting to three but she does it on one?
I have a similar phobia...but I got it because of sexual abuse does your daughter know where her's comes from?

People have needle phobia for different reasons. Your DD does not have purely needle phobia it’s about her body being invaded. I agree with ittakes2 that there is something more at play here and my immediate thought in discovering it was not purely a pain issue or caused by multiple injections when little was that she may have been sexually abused when younger. It’s a very common fear amongst survivors. Sorry op it’s not something you probably expected to see written. But having done work with survivors of abuse it sprang to mind immediately.

Hi OP. I am a dentist who was needle phobic, I have worked with a lot of needle phobic patients to help them get dental treatment.

She is not going to get over her needle phobia in 3 therapy sessions. Any therapist who claims to have a 100% success rate is lying. Honestly she may not ever get over it, but can get to a point where she can allow herself needles if needed.

What worked for me was essentially repeated exposure. I had a needle and kept it on my desk covered to start with, I knew it was in the room with me but I didn't look at it. Then I looked at it every day but didn't touch it, then I touched it every day sheathed. Then unsheathed on my skin. And on and on. I have now injected, cannulated, bled so many people that a needle is not a bother. I still wouldn't say I find getting needles myself is easy, but it's manageable.

The problem is in order to 'get over' the phobia you have to be prepared to trigger it over and over again. Sometimes people will walk in my room and I know that we arent going to get them to a point of treatment because they aren't ready. It's not vanity to be able to get over it for orthodontics, its just pure psychology that the desire for the reward is enough to be able to repeatedly trigger her phobia.

Her first visit to where she's going to get her injection should not be for the injection, I would just visit the centre. Sit in the room maybe, but safe with the knowledge she is not going to have an injection. She needs to gain confidence in herself that she can overcome her phobia. She's had 4 attempts now which have resulted in 'failure', her confidence in herself is going to be very low. She needs to build trust in herself and her ability to cope with her fear. The first thing should be something that she can do, that scares her a little bit. So that she goes away feeling proud of herself

One suggestion is there anyway she'd be able to volunteer at a vaccination centre? Not in the vaccination rooms but perhaps directing car or something. Something that would acclimatise her to the concept of injections and normalise the concept, without exposing her to a point she's going to freak out.

I really feel as though there ought to be an option for anaesthesia for those who have a real needle phobia, especially if they’ve tried all the things your Dd has

I’m extremely claustrophobic for instance, and I don’t think I could cope with an MRI scan

How much Diazepam was she given? Because anything less than around 30mg is no fucking use for severe phobias.

It takes me 40mg to even step foot in a dentists office.

I think it's her choice to get vaccinated and if she wants the help she will get it.

I’d treat it like she has a physical condition that makes it impossible to get the vaccine and she should wear a mask when out (which I still do anyway after two doses plus the booster) You’ve had the jab so you probably won’t get seriously ill. As far as Christmas, if you are getting together with others I’d explain the situation and ask what they feel comfortable with. I know if it were a close relative of mine that I loved, since I’m vaccinated I’d just wear a mask IF she was too.
As far as the holiday at first I thought well she just doesn’t go. But I have a 20 year old son I love and if it were me I’d just cancel.

@GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing

I really feel as though there ought to be an option for anaesthesia for those who have a real needle phobia, especially if they’ve tried all the things your Dd has

Anaesthesia is administered via a needle 🤔 so I’m not sure that would work. I actually had a horrible experience being given anaesthetic a while ago, I ended up having to have a needle put into my wrist as my veins collapsed, it was very painful and stressful (ended up needing a pre med to lower my heart rate).

The last time I was in hospital in ICU I had:

At least 3 lines in my neck, one central line and two for the kidney filtration machine, another line in my groin, a cannula in my right hand, prior to being taken into ICU I was injected with sedation, then adrenaline when my heart crashed, I had another shot of adrenaline when I went into cardiac arrest 2 weeks later, another couple of cannula’s, anaesthetic, daily blood tests after my central line came out, and those are just off the top of my head. On the first night when I asked for sedation because having lines etc inserted is actually quite a stressful process, I was told no, because my blood pressure was too low, so if I lost consciousness they needed to know if that was because of blood pressure,and sedation would confuse that. So multiple needles and injections it was, and I don’t have a needle phobia.

But if she’s afraid of COVID, then that’s just a snapshot of the amount of needles she’ll have to endure, and she won’t have a choice about those.

For the PP suggesting anaesthetic, quite apart from the fact that a needle is used to administer it, it is immensely expensive not to mention the amount of time it takes and the resources e.g. a qualified anaesthetist who will monitor her breathing, heart rate, blood pressure, and all that for a procedure which takes about 5 seconds? Don’t be ridiculous.

I'm answer to your OP, yes I would get tough. It's like @pantsandpringles is saying, talk it over.

I don't particularly like needles after multiple failed IVF and watching my mum have chemo and then die.

I am useless especially at blood being taken and will faint every time.

However what I would be saying for this is that if the nurse pretended to give it and did give it there would be no difference. I don't say this lightly. I went with a phobic friend to pretend give it. She absolutely wanted it. We had three practice pretend give its and it was done in the first. Because you don't feel a thing and it takes less than a second.

OP, I'm a hypnotherapist and have dealt with loads of needle phobia clients this past year. We use a pattern disruption process stored in the subconscious and then refrained the behaviour. All my clients went onto have their jabs.Nit saying they love the process but they can attend and have the jab safely without freaking out.

Reframe not refrained

With all due respect most people in ITU are so ill that they don't have the capacity to resist a needle, or trigger their phobia in the same way they might in a vaccination room. Being faced with a needle or death in ITU is a very different scenario to a vaccine. I think most people with a needle phobia can actually cope with needles when absolutely necessary, despite what they might think but this doesn't make their phobia any less real or mean they can toughen up just like that.

You cannot threaten her with a vaccine or multiple needles in ITU. Threatening someone with a phobia with even more triggering, and stressful scenarios is not going to work, and to be quite frank is a horrible think to do, and puts her under even more pressure and stress in that vaccination room. And tbh she's 20, she's not going to ITU with covid is she?

@leotardrock

Genuine question - trying not to be goofy - but how do you needle phobic people get through routine blood tests GP appointments etc? Or is having bloods taken for a test different to having a vaccine? Or do you just avoid any such tests?

Blood tests are worse and are the reason I have a needle phobia following a very bad experience. Similar to injections I tell the nurse/doctor when I arrive. I have very bad veins so there is a lot of digging around to find one to suck a decent amount of blood out. No question of avoiding them, I have to have blood tests due to a medical issue I have, there is no choice in the matter.

I also find a 'treat' afterwards helps, small bar of chocolate or coffee somewhere. Childlike I know but works for me.

I have small and shy veins, and was told by one (very splendid) practice nurse that drinking a pint of water before you set off for the appointment helps make them plump out a bit. For some people. Unfortunately I am not one of them, but she did try.