To think I should get tough with dd?

[bendmeoverbackwards]

My oldest dd is 20 and currently unvaccinated for Covid due to a severe needle phobia. She wants the vaccine but just doesn't feel able to have it.

We had 3 sessions at the vaccine centre back in September/October. They were brilliant with her and very patient and she got as far as sitting in the chair. But when they came near her with the needle she freaked out and pulled away.

Decided to leave it for a while as it was traumatic both for her and for me.

Then someone told me about a therapist who apparently has had 100% success rate for needle phobia. Don't know exactly how it works, it's not really talking therapy and not hypotherapy. But it works and I've many people raving about her. Dd agreed to see her at a cost of £175/session. She's had 2 sessions then the therapist recommended one more then a visit to the vaccine centre straight afterwards where she would be on the phone if needed.

This is booked in for tomorrow morning. However dd said today she didn't think it would work because she couldn't even cope with putting a covid test up her nose (she has a thing about her body being invaded).

I know it's not her fault but I'm a bit disappointed at her attitude. It's almost as if she is wanting/expecting it not to work.

I'm wondering if I've been too soft/sympathetic? What would you do to maximise the chance of success tomorrow?

The only thing that got me over my needle phobia was giving birth and needing an emergency section. Prior to that it usually took 4 nurses to hold me down for any vaccines which I guess is frowned upon 🥴 a bit like your dd I wasn't unwilling just unable so needed it taken out of my hands. My dd was 50/50 for surviving birth and needed intubated in a coma and surgery at 6 days etc. i almost went out of body getting pin cushioned. Since she was born I've been fine with needles. No point to that other than sometimes it's knowing that you need to do it for someone you love that can be the catalyst for change. Good luck. She might find it works tomorrow.

By ‘being tough’ I don’t mean man handling her or pinning her down. I just mean insisting she keeps trying rather than giving up.

@sqirrelfriends

I suggest showing her a video of people being intubated. It may shock her into accepting the jabs.

I am unvaccinated due to needle phobia. I used to assist in intubating people.

No unname for refusing to go to the session with the therapist. If she's not going to try then she shouldn't have wasted OPs money. I didn't say she had to get the vaccine tomorrow, but she has to go to the session that's paid for and be willing instead of outright refusal.

Don’t get tough she definitely doesn’t need that.

I feel for both of you. Can someone else take her? Change the dynamics a little bit.

Rescue remedy? I'd be exasperated by now

I vaccinated a needle phobic patient last week. She was noisy and fidgety but was willing and consented to the vaccine and having it despite her phobia. So with an assistant to hold her hand I was able to jab her as it can be done very very quickly. However it is a problem if she cannot even bring herself to lie down. If she can bring herself to lie down like she did once before if you give her something to hold/ squeeze and if she consented to someone holding her still, it may be possible to give it. Al depends on what your DD can tolerate given her phobia

@chopc most of the vaccine centres round here are short on space with nowhere to lie down. She can sit in the chair with no problem, I just hope the vaccinator can prepare the needle without her seeing it.

No, don’t keep pushing her. She’s an adult. Not to mention that each time she goes she’s wasting an appointment and potentially a dose of the vaccine. You absolutely are babying her.

[quote bendmeoverbackwards]@chopc most of the vaccine centres round here are short on space with nowhere to lie down. She can sit in the chair with no problem, I just hope the vaccinator can prepare the needle without her seeing it.[/quote]
I've had all three & not once seen the needle.

I wasn't looking, but neither were they drawing it up in front of me!

@chopc

I vaccinated a needle phobic patient last week. She was noisy and fidgety but was willing and consented to the vaccine and having it despite her phobia. So with an assistant to hold her hand I was able to jab her as it can be done very very quickly. However it is a problem if she cannot even bring herself to lie down. If she can bring herself to lie down like she did once before if you give her something to hold/ squeeze and if she consented to someone holding her still, it may be possible to give it. Al depends on what your DD can tolerate given her phobia

Are you a vaccinator? Your patient was lucky to get to the point of getting to the centre. I can't even book an appointment.

She's an adult. Her body, her choice, but her choices will come with consequences such as missing out on family holidays and other things that unvaccinated people have to deal with. It's awful having a phobia of anything, but like anyone else with a phobia, she will have to try and work through it and live with it. I have a phobia that I take tablets, inc diazepam, but I find the best thing for a phobia is to face to, the old saying 'face your fears' is right. The more you expose yourself to your fear the lesser it gets. There's only so much you can do OP.

I would let her try owne more time tomorrow and see if it's okay. If not, then knock it all on the head. She has a phobia, it is not a choice. She'll have to stay home, when you go on holiday. It's not the end of the world.

@bendmeoverbackwards the vaccinator should absolutely be able to jab her without her realising. Thing is not all vaccinators are the same - an experienced GP won't be fazed by her fear but a newly trained vaccinator might. Such a shame your surgery is not doing vaccines. I will keep everything crossed for you

Booking the holiday without her is punishing her for something that isn’t her fault

Why would it be "punishing" her when it's simply a natural consequence of her own choice?

BTW I wouldn't have said "choice" except that for me the orthodontist-without-medication changes things, especially as she's supposed to have a dental phobia too
As a PP said, it's starting to sound as if she'll make the effort if she wants something enough, so I wonder if she doesn't want the "family holiday" quite as much as you do?

I think you should leave her alone and let her make her own choices about medical treatment. If that limits her options for holidays and other activities then so be it.

What is she actually afraid of? Because it’s not in the slightest bit painful. She must have seen all the news footage of hundreds of people having their jabs completely unfazed.

I've namechanged for this.

I am unvaccinated due to severe needle phobia. To put it in perspective the last time I needed anything done that involved needles was a dental visit 2 and a half years ago and involved enough pre sedation that I had no idea who I was, where I was and I was definitely unable to consent to anything. And there was even more sedation involved to actually get the treatment done. Seeing needles on the news e.t.c is enough to make me faint usually. If I know there are needles about I won't even go into a room so going to a vaccination centre just won't be feasible.

Tough love doesn't work- for me at least. Trust me, I've tried. If anything it actually makes it worse and makes me even less reluctant to want to have anything done. And then I end up triggering a flight/flight/freeze response.

Diazepam doesn't work either. I tried it to have my first covid vaccine. Enough diazepam to make me relaxed is also enough diazepam to remove any inhibitions about hitting someone. Which is totally and utterly mortifying as violence towards NHS staff is NEVER acceptable, full stop. And I would have succeeded if DH wouldn't have intervened and taken the hit instead.

I tend to keep my vaccination status quiet IRL because as soon as you say you are not vaccinated, people assume you are a tin-foil hat brigade person. I'm not. Vaccination is a damn good idea, my kids are vaccinated for everything (DH takes them) and the minute a needle free/nasal covid vaccine is released I am at the front of the queue.

I'm not really sure what the solution is to needle phobia. I was very similar to your daughter around the same age. Infact refused all medical intervention that required needles during my first birth and very stupidly went home from hospital rather than have a canula sited (I was dehydrated and they wanted to push fluids)
I think the only thing that actually helped me was a life or death situation when I was pregnant with my 2nd child and I was just so so incredibly unwell that I didn't have the strength to refuse consent or to even care what they were sticking in me at that point, after that the rest of the pregnancy required lots of medical intervention and involved needles a lot and I remembered being able to do it when i was really unwell so I could then do it even though I would have still been slightly reluctant and anxious about it that point and now they don't even bother me in the slightest. The covid jab was probably the easiest needle as well.
I never thought I would ever get it over it, but naturally just have! although I wouldn't go and have a tattoo or anything and I struggle watching my own children have any form of needles but if i require it for medical reasons there is no issue at all.

I think you need to accept it for now and work with what you’ve got. Take a break from pushing her. You can’t force it.

I’ve got a phobia of flying, it took quite a while for me to learn the skills to tolerate it. A phobia is not the same as really really hating something. You find yourself having to fight a panic attack which is quite an odd experience or at least it is for me.

@tinfoilspiders

I've namechanged for this.

I am unvaccinated due to severe needle phobia. To put it in perspective the last time I needed anything done that involved needles was a dental visit 2 and a half years ago and involved enough pre sedation that I had no idea who I was, where I was and I was definitely unable to consent to anything. And there was even more sedation involved to actually get the treatment done. Seeing needles on the news e.t.c is enough to make me faint usually. If I know there are needles about I won't even go into a room so going to a vaccination centre just won't be feasible.

Tough love doesn't work- for me at least. Trust me, I've tried. If anything it actually makes it worse and makes me even less reluctant to want to have anything done. And then I end up triggering a flight/flight/freeze response.

Diazepam doesn't work either. I tried it to have my first covid vaccine. Enough diazepam to make me relaxed is also enough diazepam to remove any inhibitions about hitting someone. Which is totally and utterly mortifying as violence towards NHS staff is NEVER acceptable, full stop. And I would have succeeded if DH wouldn't have intervened and taken the hit instead.

I tend to keep my vaccination status quiet IRL because as soon as you say you are not vaccinated, people assume you are a tin-foil hat brigade person. I'm not. Vaccination is a damn good idea, my kids are vaccinated for everything (DH takes them) and the minute a needle free/nasal covid vaccine is released I am at the front of the queue.

Thank you for sharing this. I am also a 'violent' phobic. So many people just tell me to go anyway and look away from the needle. I would be holding the chair up in my hands and that point, or digging my nails into my own skin to the point of bleeding. I am also waiting for a needle free vaccine, that I can administer myself in private.

I just hope the vaccinator can prepare the needle without her seeing it

Can she not just close her eyes?

@XenoBitch I don’t mind needles at all and I still look away when the kit is being prepared. It makes me feel a bit more comfortable that’s all. I’m not surprised it doesn’t work for an actual phobia!

[quote Camembear]@XenoBitch I don’t mind needles at all and I still look away when the kit is being prepared. It makes me feel a bit more comfortable that’s all. I’m not surprised it doesn’t work for an actual phobia![/quote]
Yep, no one likes needles, and I don't know of anyone who would willingly watch the needle go in tbh.
But it does come across as dismissive when people tell needlephobes to just look away, when a phobia runs so much deeper than that.