To think I should get tough with dd?

[bendmeoverbackwards]

My oldest dd is 20 and currently unvaccinated for Covid due to a severe needle phobia. She wants the vaccine but just doesn't feel able to have it.

We had 3 sessions at the vaccine centre back in September/October. They were brilliant with her and very patient and she got as far as sitting in the chair. But when they came near her with the needle she freaked out and pulled away.

Decided to leave it for a while as it was traumatic both for her and for me.

Then someone told me about a therapist who apparently has had 100% success rate for needle phobia. Don't know exactly how it works, it's not really talking therapy and not hypotherapy. But it works and I've many people raving about her. Dd agreed to see her at a cost of £175/session. She's had 2 sessions then the therapist recommended one more then a visit to the vaccine centre straight afterwards where she would be on the phone if needed.

This is booked in for tomorrow morning. However dd said today she didn't think it would work because she couldn't even cope with putting a covid test up her nose (she has a thing about her body being invaded).

I know it's not her fault but I'm a bit disappointed at her attitude. It's almost as if she is wanting/expecting it not to work.

I'm wondering if I've been too soft/sympathetic? What would you do to maximise the chance of success tomorrow?

BTW it doesn't really hurt.....steroid injections are the most painful.

and she will need to toughen up a bit!
I had CBT for agoraphobia......if you want to get better you do have to push through at some stage so maybe the question is does DD want to push through?

or is there another reason/agenda going on ?

Try homeopathy

Seems like you are trying really hard. But it doesn’t seem like it is going to work does it? Have you thought about Hypnotherapy? Can be very successful for curing phobias, could be worth a try.

I used to have terrible needle phobia, so much so that I remember screaming and wailing at school in my teens and having panic attacks about whatever vaccine it was at the time.

I had a great nurse once, in my 20s, who was amazing, and I would say, fixed me. I had to have a blood test, and I started crying and shaking and going all OMG NO I DON'T LIKE NEEDLES NO NO and he said "NOBODY likes needles except psychopaths, you're normal. However, I promise you, I've done this a LOT of times and I will not hurt you and you will be safer if you relax and let me do this" and then he taught me a calming breathing thing, and I remember feeling sort of hypnotised, and I let him take the blood and it was almost like I was watching from outside my body. That was years ago, but I still think of him. I always say 'I'm not great with needles' when I have to have one, but I do the breathing thing and I haven't felt an injection in a long time now. It was so so odd. So maybe some form of hypnotism that allows her to acknowledge the fear?

She’s unlikely to get very sick and you are vaccinated. Why put her through the torture?

@bendmeoverbackwards have you read about This research into a non needle covid vaccine? May be worth investigating.

At 20 your DD needs to take responsibility now. She pays for the appointment whether she attends or not. Book your holiday for where you want. Let her research her options.

@AskingQuestionsAllTheTime

This makes me wonder: what can one do about severe needle phobia? Is there anything? You can't very well have anaesthetic, because that tends to be delivered by needle, doesn't it? (Or have they improved it since the last time I had one?) Hypnosis? It must be a problem at the moment for quite a lot of people.

Severe needle phobic here. All people with trypanophobia experience different severities. Some can find popping a pill and 'looking away' will be enough. Some need a lot of therapy to even get through the door. And some are severe enough that not much will help, and the only thing they can do is wait for a different way to get the vaccine. All our reactions can vary too. Some panic, some faint, some get violent. Meds works for some, hypnotherapy works for some. Avoidance works for some too.

How will you get tough? Shes an adult

@SweetBabyCheeses99

1. She’s 20!!! Old enough to make her own decisions (especially since 12 year olds are apparently old enough to consent).

1. She’s vanishingly unlikely to be seriously ill.
2. It doesn’t make it any less likely she’ll pass it on.
3. She’s moving out soon and I imagine her new flatmates couldn’t give her a monkeys.

So maybe leave her alone? £175 is a joke too, you should pay someone to get your head looked at instead.

I agree. £175 is better spent on getting help for controlling behavioirs possibly driven by health anxiety?

Leave her be.

Her body her choice however I would be telling her she needs to keep her distance from all other household members(not easy I know), no hugging or physical contact at all times until she moves out.
I would also be booking the holiday without her.

I think you need to be tough on her but only in the sense that you don't give up on encouraging her or let her give up on herself. Her saying that she doesn't think it'll work is fair enough if a bit disappointing. It could be the fear talking or she may genuinely feel helpless. See how it goes tomorrow and keep doing what you are doing. Well done for being such an amazingly supportive parent. Others have suggested CBT so if this therapy tomorrow doesn't work at least you have another avenue to try although I appreciate this must be costing you an awful lot of money. Good luck, I hope your daughter can make some progress with her phobia x

Dd is needle phobic and prefers the cold spray to the cream. Very sadly, she is also a substantial self harmer and anorexic. Part of anorexia treatment involves a month of very very regular blood tests. This was really hellish, but it just had to be done, she was very very unwell (she still is). She did them though. She needs to hold on to dh or my hands v tightly - she will need one of us there.

Despite all this, dd is still needle phobic and hasn’t been vaccinated but does want the vaccination.

You must have the patience of a saint. Honestly at 20 I wouldn’t be babying her like this. I also wouldn’t be running around changing holiday destinations either-leave her at home!

@bendmeoverbackwards, “Then last year she wanted to have her teeth straightened. She found somewhere she was comfortable with and for the first two appointments took diazepam. She now sees the orthodontist with no medication. I never thought I'd see the day.”
Does she aye 🤔
I would lose my shit with her. She coped with her body being invaded for vanity didn’t she?!
You’ve been far too patient.
If you’re not at risk though, I’d shrug and leave her to it. Certainly not be paying for her attention seeking.

You totally wasted the money on therapy 😬, sounds like she’s got it into her head that no therapy will work.

My dd has a lot of phobias, she has Aspergers and ADHD, apparently it’s much harder for the autistic brain to get over a phobia with therapy because they usually have it set in their head that the therapy won’t work before they even start (I can kind of conform this with my own phobias). Luckily my dd is ok with vaccines but she has a bad phobia of fine and struggles to even be near a lit candle 😬. I was told by a therapist that it’s unlikely to cure phobias and anxiety and it’s best to work on finding coping strategies instead. So if she really does want the vaccine she needs to find ways to control her anxiety beforehand (because that’s when it’s at its worse), mindelfulness techniques can help? Distraction? Breathing?, I would also suggest not giving her time to over think it, take her out for a drive and just pull up outside the vaccination centre. You maybe able to get it done at your gp surgery if you talk to them about her fears?

My youngest dd isn’t vaccinated yet, she is severely autistic and I was wary of getting it done when it was first offered for the 12-17 year olds, I’m now wishing I had agreed to it because it would have been done at her school, now I have to find somewhere where she can have it done because she doesn’t cope with queuing or busy places 😬.

Thank you to the people who explained to me about the difficulty (but possibility) of anaesthesia of you have a phobia about needles, because I was genuinely wondering how it could be managed. I hate needles and they terrify me, but so far when they have been absolutely necessary I have managed somehow...

I don't think that someone with a phobia can be forced or talked out of it. And I don't think that them being twenty magically makes it possible for them to ignore it.

It is genuinely the case that I actually felt none of the three Covid inoculations I have had so far, but telling her that is no help to someone who is phobic about needles, because there is no way to give inoculation by stealth and only tell her afterwards.

All I can do is wish her (and you) the very best, and hope that when it comes to it, she gets the strength from somewhere for the necessary few minutes. If she is allowed to have someone with her, that might help, so that they can talk with her and distract her. And if she sits with her back to the table with all the stuff on it rather than facing it, so she doesn't actually see the needle at all, that might also help by making it so she literally doesn't know it is happening until it already has. But I have no idea whether either of these things can be arranged.

My DS has a needle phobia, has had multiple trips to hospital since a baby and had needles in his feet and all sorts of places. He is very distressed at having anything related to needles. He has to have an injection every night that i give him even now at age 14 when most are doing it themselves. Its like an insulin size needle. He has to have blood tests, tests in hospital involving needles, he has been distressed every time, he gets a build up of anxiety every time and i talk him through it and he has it done through tears. He knows it has to be done and I wont allow him to refuse. If he was 20 and decided he wasnt going to get vaccinated, that is his choice but i wont be limiting my life to accomodate his choices..my DS has a reason to be fearful of needles having had awful experiences when a 3yr old and beyond.
Your DD is an adult and can make her own choices dont limit your own

Oh, and it might help her to breathe in for a count of five, then breathe out slowly while saying "I shall not fear. Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" or absolutely anything else about that length (it's the one I use because it happens to appeal to me, but "Mary had a little lamb, its fleece was white as snow" would be just as good, I suspect) -- anything that makes her concentrate on getting it right and not think about anything else for the time it takes to say it. That works for me; only I don't have a full-blown phobia, I'm just fearful.

She’s an adult and she is clearly trying. I can’t see what being “tougher” would do except drive a wedge between the two of you. And for what it’s worth I had an anxiety at that age, it was so easy to hide when my mum was trying to help. Just step back and have nothing to do with it and allow her to make adult choices.

Exactly, rogue one. My DS1 is 21. If he hadn’t been double vaccinated he wouldn’t be coming on holiday with us next year which he very much wants to do. His choice - and her choice. No vaccine, no family holiday.

Why are you so keen for her to get a vaccine you clearly have no faith in - since you say it will put you at risk if she doens't have it?

If she misses out on a holiday - so be it - her choice.

Another one here with needle phobia so I feel for your DD. I've had both vaccines and a booster. I tell the staff of my fears as I go in, look away and hope for the best. For me being no nonsense about my fear seems to work. I didn't allow anyone to go with me to the appointments as find sympathy makes me worse. I am inwardly dying a million deaths and trying not to cry however. I hope your DD can overcome her fears.

Booking the holiday without her is punishing her for something that isn’t her fault. This may well be our last family holiday as a family of 5, it wouldn’t be the same without her.

@CounsellorTroi

Have you tried telling her that if she doesn't have the jab she will be at risk of needing hospital treatment which will be much more invasive than a jab if she gets Covid?

Surely a 20 year old knows this already?