To think I should get tough with dd?

[bendmeoverbackwards]

My oldest dd is 20 and currently unvaccinated for Covid due to a severe needle phobia. She wants the vaccine but just doesn't feel able to have it.

We had 3 sessions at the vaccine centre back in September/October. They were brilliant with her and very patient and she got as far as sitting in the chair. But when they came near her with the needle she freaked out and pulled away.

Decided to leave it for a while as it was traumatic both for her and for me.

Then someone told me about a therapist who apparently has had 100% success rate for needle phobia. Don't know exactly how it works, it's not really talking therapy and not hypotherapy. But it works and I've many people raving about her. Dd agreed to see her at a cost of £175/session. She's had 2 sessions then the therapist recommended one more then a visit to the vaccine centre straight afterwards where she would be on the phone if needed.

This is booked in for tomorrow morning. However dd said today she didn't think it would work because she couldn't even cope with putting a covid test up her nose (she has a thing about her body being invaded).

I know it's not her fault but I'm a bit disappointed at her attitude. It's almost as if she is wanting/expecting it not to work.

I'm wondering if I've been too soft/sympathetic? What would you do to maximise the chance of success tomorrow?

I know of someone who had someone go in with them, and hold them in a tight bear hug, so that they weren't exactly restrained, but at the same time, were unable to lash out or run away really, and they were also comforted and secure. A bit like the distraction technique, I think the extra sensation of someone holding them also helped; maybe the vaccinator could be wiping down her arms or something to desensitise her so that she doesn't know when the actual vaccine goes in. And definitely not seeing any of it prepared or anywhere near her.

I didn't even get to sit down for my booster - it was literally a walk-through! That quick.

I wouldn't be surprised if there is somewhere more private she could go there, though, or that they could create the space if you let them know. They must have areas to deal with people who have reactions etc.

And like someone said earlier, she doesn't need to get over her needle phobia for this; if that sounds overwhelming to her. She just needs to go through with this one thing, and she can hate it and panic and it will be OK in the end, but she'll have it done. Sometimes the thought that you have to get over a fear and get to the point of not minding it just sounds too much, but she doesn't have to get that far. It doesn't mean she will have pressure to have other needles or appear not bothered by any of them etc.

Don't try and restrain her to have a vaccination.
Terrified adults are extremely strong and you may well be unable to do it successfully on your own- there is a reason why restraint training takes multiple adults to be successful. There is a good chance either you, her or both of you will be hurt.

DH tried to give me a bear hug. He got a kicking and sworn at very coarsely. If my hands were free I have absolutely no doubt I would have hit instead. Its not funny or clever- it's embarassing and shameful instead. FWIW DH is built like a brick shithouse and is a good half a foot taller than me.

@tinfoilspiders

Don't try and restrain her to have a vaccination. Terrified adults are extremely strong and you may well be unable to do it successfully on your own- there is a reason why restraint training takes multiple adults to be successful. There is a good chance either you, her or both of you will be hurt.

DH tried to give me a bear hug. He got a kicking and sworn at very coarsely. If my hands were free I have absolutely no doubt I would have hit instead. Its not funny or clever- it's embarassing and shameful instead. FWIW DH is built like a brick shithouse and is a good half a foot taller than me.

Omg, how could you ever trust him again?

@bendmeoverbackwards

I remember all this from when you were trying to get her first in time for your Christmas holiday 😔

Do you have an appointment time for tomorrow? Do you have a telephone number for the site lead? If so, this is what we do for needle phobic patients - the appointment time is irrelevant, whatever time they can make that day, we'll see them. The accompanying person calls the site lead when they are on their way, door marshall is advised so they can be waved through no queuing. Admin gets everything ready, so they just confirm name on arrival then straight to vaccinator who is waiting.

We've also vaccinated one person in their car as they couldn't bring themselves to come into the centre. That's totally by exception, but we'd do it if it was the only way.

@Pinkbonbon because I asked him to try and do it. Thinking being diazepam and a bear hug would be enough. Nope. And increasing sedation comes with increased risks that can't be safely managed in a covid vaccine hub.

I still think covid vaccination is a damn good idea and as soon as it can be done safely then I will.

Thank you @WhatsitWiggle, I’ll tell Dh who is taking her tomorrow. At the last try, they refused to come out and jab her in the car. This is a different centre tomorrow.

It must be really difficult but try not to lose patience, phobias sound ridiculous to others but are very real to the sufferer. While I agree with the vaccine to reduce the risk of hospitalisation and serious illness, I’m confused about how her being unvaccinated is putting you at risk? Covid can still be transmitted to others when the infected person is double vaccinated. (We are 99% sure my DSD caught it from my double vaccinated husband!)

@leotardrock

Genuine question - trying not to be goofy - but how do you needle phobic people get through routine blood tests GP appointments etc? Or is having bloods taken for a test different to having a vaccine? Or do you just avoid any such tests?

How often are you having routine blood tests? I've never had blood taken. The thought freaks me out. My covid vaccine was the first jags I've had since I was a toddler/old enough to remember. I told them I wasn't good with it and didn't do needles. I made sure I sat facing away from them and looked away the whole time so I didn't see the needle. Was proud of myself that I managed it without crying/fainting/spewing. Couldn't do blood though. Feel sick at the thought.

There’s loads of conditions that are diagnosed via blood test.

I’ve got a chronic condition (underactive thyroid) which requires me to have a blood test once a year and more frequently when my thyroxine dose needs adjusting. Also had several cycles of IVF which required loads of injections (two a day for two weeks, self administered) and blood tests.

I’m thankfully not needle phobic. I sympathise with anyone who is.

@PrivateParty well done getting your jab.

Well we’re back after another failed attempt ☹️ She just couldn’t do it. I’ll have to take a step back now and leave it to her.

I’ll have to take a step back now and leave it to her

That would probably be sensible, OP; after all she's an adult and you've done what you can, perhaps even to the point of being over-involved

As said upthread, given the situation with the dentist it seems she can do this when she really wants to, so are you sure she's quite as keen on this "family holiday" as you are?

I’m disappointed for her and emotionally exhausted.

@Puzzledandpissedoff yes she wants to go holiday with us. A lovely beach holiday that we’re paying for? What twenty something wouldn’t jump at the chance?

It's a real shame this hasn't worked, but honestly, when something is a phobia it's incredibly difficult to just stop having it. All power to her for trying, anyway.

I can't see why people think that reaching one's eighteenth birthday would make the slightest difference to a phobia!

I know someone who has tattoos but is needle phobic, they have had their vaccines though because they are a care worker and would have lost their job if they didn’t, they did almost pass out but they knew how important it was to go through with it.

I’m not needle phobic but am scared of the dentist and dental injections, It is possible to be scared of one type of needle and not another.

OP, I would just tell her you will be going on holidays without her, if she really wants to go she will get the vaccine.

Well under current rules she can still travel to Mexico. We’re due to go at Easter.

Can she get drunk and try?

A lovely beach holiday that we’re paying for? What twenty something wouldn’t jump at the chance?

One who, like so many 20 year olds, would rather go away with her mates?
But you know her and we don't, so if you say she's really keen to go then obviously I believe you

@Natty13

Can she get drunk and try?

I was going to suggest this too 😬, a few shots of vodka and I feel much more relaxed and more likely to agree to something (which is why I don’t drink).

Interesting. She’s not a big drinker and until recently was tee total. Now she only likes a bit to give a mild effect, she wouldn’t like getting very drunk.

@bendmeoverbackwards

And will cause problems with family holidays.

Surely she just stays home?

Don't arrange plans around her. She snoozes, she loses.

"Decided to leave it for a while as it was traumatic both for her and for me."

.....

No one likes needles. And no one likes their "body invaded" (your words when it came to covid tests up your nose) but you do what needs to be done. The thing with needles is that you can avert your eyes.

You need to stop with YOUR behaviour. I feel like you make it worse for her.
It doesn't help her if you start freaking out and feel "traumatized" by her being scared of a needle.

Plus she is 20. And you worry about family holidays? Surely those days are behind her now. She would wanna go out with her friends and have different types of holidays?!

@Natty13

Can she get drunk and try?

Because the threat of not getting a covid shot is so much worse than the potential alcoholic tendencies you might teach a young person by encouraging them to use alcohol to manage their fears and emotions?

Have a break from it for a while. Try and minimise any mention of the whole topic. It's not an easy situation and it may be exacerbated by the constant topical nature and imagery of it constantly applying pressure and feeding the fear. That includes media exposure.

If she gets a break from that, it may be easier to use the strategies she's been working on.

I know there's already been a failed attempt, but for the future, maybe ask her to tell you "why" she is scared (I don't like needles, it feels intrusive etc aren't complete answers) she needs to explain what specific parts she is scared of, why she is scared of it, and how it makes her feel.

Then work on those. I'll use my agoraphobia as an example.

I was scared to leave the house. I felt sick, shakey and had panic attacks.

What: I didn't like being around other people. I felt like everyone was looking at me, and could see e every horrible thing about me - emotionally and physically.

Why: my self esteem was below the floor. I felt like I was a bad person. I didn't want to face a world I felt I wasn't part of.

How: it made me feel anxious, because my brain wouldn't switch off about how terrible I was and how much I didn't fit in. I felt unable to control anything outside so it made me feel helpless due to the unpredictability of it all. That left me on constant alert from any and all dangers. Being at home was safe for the me, and comfortable because it was an environment I had control over.

From that you can see that my issue wasn't with being outside at all. It was the helplessness I felt at being unable to predict what was going to happen. That stemmed from things that have happened in the past when I was in an environment I couldn't control - so the feeling just transferred over.

Now, when I go outside I talk myself through it -
"I feel like I'm going to have a panic attack - why? Because I'm spiralling again - it's OK to feel scared. That's natural. But no one is looking at you and no one cares that you are here - nothing bad is happening, you don't need to panic because everything is alright. Your just going to the shops, it'll be great. Then we can get home and feel proud that we made it "

And so on and so forth with the internal dialogue between myself and my brain.

I really suggest CBT for your daughter, because it's something to work on, rather than a" quick fix".

Did she go to the session and be on the phone like was planned OP? At this point I would step back but not plan around her.