DP uncomfortable about a school run dad taking DD swimming

[Eastie77Returns]

DD (8) will be attending swimming lessons at a new venue in the New Year. There are a couple of other kids in her class who attend lessons at the same pool, I am friends with both sets of parents. I was chatting to the dad of one of the kids and he mentioned that he and and the other child’s mum take it in turns to take both children swimming each week. He asked if I’d like to join the ‘rotation’ which would mean taking all 3 kids every 3 weeks and I said I’d be happy to. We all live a few minutes walk from each other and DD knows the 2 boys well. I’d already discussed this with the other mum so she is on board.

DP has announced he is uncomfortable about the arrangement as there is a male parent involved (when I originally mentioned the plan to him he thought it would only be mums). I think he is being absolutely ridiculous, I have known the school dad since our children were 2 years old and DD adores him.

However I discussed this with a friend who said she 100% understands why DP is unhappy and I need to see this from his point of view. AIBU??

I would be more worried about you partners attitude than the male parent helping with the swimming rota !

Although in this particular situation I wouldn’t see a large amount of risk, but for me personally I just take my kids swimming myself. You never know when they’ll need help etc and I don’t like them being in public changing rooms alone.
^ This 100%
I wouldn’t like this arrangement because at this age a child might need help and it might be very awkward for a child to ask an adult of opposite sex. So for me it’s about not putting your child into a difficult situation.

1 in 20 children are sexually abused. This figure is likely to be higher due to underreporting.

98% of sexual abuse is perpetrated by men.

Anyone who says “but women abuse too” isn’t worthy of engaging with on the subject and I question their motives in trying to deny reality and pressure women to lower their safeguarding standards for their children. Likewise anyone who claims it’s paranoid/crazy/ridiculous to consider the possibility of this happening to a child.

To all the PP who say “what about sleepovers and play dates then? Don’t they pose a risk too?” Yes! My children don’t do sleepovers. Their lives are not ruined. They are safe and happy.

I couldn’t give a shit if a man is “insulted” or “offended” that I don’t give him unsupervised access to my children. If he’s a good man he will understand perfectly well why, and he would never want to do anything to make a woman or child feel uncomfortable or unsafe.

"Also your dd is nearly 9, quite old enough to tell you if something bothers her."

Seriously? Ah yes that must be why no children above the age of 7 are ever abused without them immediately telling their parents.....

Amazing! A dad fully Willing to get involved, and do something women predominantly are left to do and so many people saying they wouldn't be happy with this? Completely bonkers based on the fact he is male and nothing else. If OP's DD is happy with this, there is no problem!

@fuckoffjournalists

Amazing! A dad fully Willing to get involved, and do something women predominantly are left to do and so many people saying they wouldn't be happy with this? Completely bonkers based on the fact he is male and nothing else. If OP's DD is happy with this, there is no problem!

I agree. It’s ridiculous to oppose this. Apart from anything else, what kind of message does it convey to girls? Only mummies can do the swimming run?

So for all the posts saying its risky , opportunity to abuse is everywhere in this senario , husbands pov has to be respected , and on and on it goes then why is he only worried about the male parent ???
What about the female parents , strangers in the changing room , peer on peer abuse pool staff ?????
Why dont you put the poor child in a tower and throw away the key .

YANU - the changing rooms are a public place which will be filled with other famillies, nothing surruptiously untoward is going to happen in that enviroment.

There’s a very interesting thread on Twitter about safeguarding. Maybe those who think it’s ridiculous to be concerned should read it.
twitter.com/georgiaxcross/status/1471885266612899854?s=21

@Mocara

So for all the posts saying its risky , opportunity to abuse is everywhere in this senario , husbands pov has to be respected , and on and on it goes then why is he only worried about the male parent ??? What about the female parents , strangers in the changing room , peer on peer abuse pool staff ????? Why dont you put the poor child in a tower and throw away the key .

Because assaults against children are almost overwhelmingly committed by men.

Anyone who says “but women abuse too” isn’t worthy of engaging with on the subject and I question their motives in trying to deny reality and pressure women to lower their safeguarding standards for their children. Likewise anyone who claims it’s paranoid/crazy/ridiculous to consider the possibility of this happening to a child

Anyone who questions motives of someone that doesn’t get hysterical about men giving lifts to children who won’t be on their own isn’t worthy of engaging with on any subject. Get lost with your questioning of motives just because a person doesn’t automatically jump to the conclusion that every man anywhere near a child is some sort of pervert. If you think like that, I have to question your own mind and behaviour around children.

@Staffy1 “hysterical” nice bit of misogyny and exactly the kind of thing I’m talking about in terms of motive. Are you accusing me of being a paedophile because I have a keen interest in safeguarding my children? Don’t be coy. Say what you mean.

just because a person doesn’t automatically jump to the conclusion that every man anywhere near a child is some sort of pervert.

Also this is a complete misrepresentation of what people are saying. Not sure if again it’s because you are a misogynist or because you genuinely don’t understand. Acknowledging risk and safeguarding children accordingly is not the same as believing that every man is a predator.

Think your partner is being bonkers. I take it he will do his fair share of the extra journeys which will result if this arrangement is turned down.....?

OP 75% yanbu so there's your answer.

The posts saying DH has right of veto if uncomfy. In theory yes, but surely discomfort must be reasonable?

If we went by that then they'd never have done more than walking pace on scooters, never climbed a tree out of his reach, they wouldn't have a date with a boy until 16, and they wouldn't be allowed out to pub/ club/ hanging out after 9pm until maybe 25.

Reasonable veto. Has told understandable reasons (may not agree but get why he doesn't like) not just 'uncomfortable'.

He didn't want me having a flying lesson. Don't like! What if...!
I said. Get that but stop catastrophising. Sorry you worried but doing it.

The dad is walking 3 children to the swimming pool.
Then he is waiting in the cafe
He is not going into the changing rooms.
He is not in the pool, they are having a lesson.
They are quite capable of getting dressed themselves.

If this man was offering to share the lifts to brownies, or football, would everyone be crying “no he might abuse her”? It’s no different.

I cannot believe the responses accusing him of offering this so he can abuse her child.
We shared lifts for years with many other parents, some male some female, to all clubs.
Never would I have thought any of them were only doing it to abuse my children, and if I had ever thought anybody thought that about my dh I would have been devastated.

Seems to be a Mumsnet thing - a dad is either branded a waste of space for not getting involved enough or labeled a potential molester if he is involved with his children. On here a man can do no right.

In this particular scenario, it seems the accompanying adults role is to escort a small group of children (friends) from the door of their homes to the door of the changing village at the local pool. They then retreat to the cafe for an overpriced, watered down coffee and try to not get too bored for the next hour untill the children reappear at the door of said changing village with or without most of their belongings and then walks them home again.
As op has said this is an afternoon where the pool runs lessons there is likely to be very little general public too, mostly a continuous rotation of children and parents.
The risk while never zero, is negligible and can be further mitigate by op and her daughter having open lines of communication/a culture of safe sharing etc (which is ideal regardless of this situation) - so if the once every 3 weeks 'dodgy Dave' decides to start meeting them at the cubicles rather than the cafe or starts offering to dry her hair then OP will know about it and put an end to it if need be.
At the same time, when OP's husband has to take his daughter and the 2 other boys he'll have to promise not to molester the boys while he's there too - cos you know, all men etc

This is such a sad sign of the times, this could be your dh people are being so suspicious of. If my dd was comfortable and happy with this arrangement I would be happy too. I would expect my dd to be able to independently dress herself, if she couldn't or if there was an unexpected accident that meant she needed help I would expect to be called.
You do know that abusers can be female too don't you? Where should this paranoia end?

I agree with your DH, the majority of children are abused by someone they know, swimming lessons involve changing and it's not impossible for a child to inappropriately touched whilst in a cubicle and to not know it's wrong.
As a victim of abuse at the ages of 7-10 by a family friend. I'd advise you to not allow your daughter to be taken by other parents whilst she's still so young.

>98% of sexual abuse is perpetrated by men.

What proportion is by the father?

The other child's parents are happy with this arrangement aren't they? It is not only girls who can be abused. The way it is described I would not have concerns OP - unless I had any concerns re my own feelings about this dad or how my dc reacts to being around him.

Honestly how do some of you on here function in the real world and thats coming from someone who works within the safeguarding world.

I understand abusers are usually known to their victims etc but have known this man for almost a decade and trust him completely. The chances of anything untoward happening with DD are less than zero

Desperately naive statement and completely contradictory. You know "abusers are usually known to their victims" yet the chances are "less than zero" - how do you square those two sentences? I used to wonder how child abuse happens so frequently under parents' noses but since joining mumsnet it's sadly become obvious why. So many parents on here are completely blase about the risk to children.

Sex offenders are NOT a teeny, tiny minority of men. It's a significant chunk of the male population. Your DP knows what men are like and is uncomfortable for good reason. It's too risky. I wouldn't allow it.

As someone who spends a disproportionate amount of time thinking about how to ensure children, girls especially, have private and safe spaces… I am nonetheless floored at this attitude. It absolutely is true that most abusers are men. And that they r4 known to the children involved. But I am not willing to massively restrict my daughter’s life because of fears that can and, in this case absolutely are, being mitigated.

Op, I wouldn’t think twice about this personally. Assuming your dd is comfortable and she knows the dad involved, I really can’t see the issue. Of course there’s a risk in any situation but it’s small and what you have outlined makes it even smaller.

But sadly. This is why when I organise play dates, if dh is the one who will be here and supervising I always feel I have to tell the other parent that because I know there are many who won’t want him in charge of their children.

@user1471447863

Seems to be a Mumsnet thing - a dad is either branded a waste of space for not getting involved enough or labeled a potential molester if he is involved with his children. On here a man can do no right.

In this particular scenario, it seems the accompanying adults role is to escort a small group of children (friends) from the door of their homes to the door of the changing village at the local pool. They then retreat to the cafe for an overpriced, watered down coffee and try to not get too bored for the next hour untill the children reappear at the door of said changing village with or without most of their belongings and then walks them home again.
As op has said this is an afternoon where the pool runs lessons there is likely to be very little general public too, mostly a continuous rotation of children and parents.
The risk while never zero, is negligible and can be further mitigate by op and her daughter having open lines of communication/a culture of safe sharing etc (which is ideal regardless of this situation) - so if the once every 3 weeks 'dodgy Dave' decides to start meeting them at the cubicles rather than the cafe or starts offering to dry her hair then OP will know about it and put an end to it if need be.
At the same time, when OP's husband has to take his daughter and the 2 other boys he'll have to promise not to molester the boys while he's there too - cos you know, all men etc

Nobody is saying a father is a ‘molester’ for trying to get involved with his own kids.

They’re simply saying it’s understandable that a parent might object to an unrelated male taking a young girl swimming with no other girls or women for a multitude of reasons.

It’s not going to harm the child if she goes swimming with her parents instead and her father will be able to take her and feel comfortable with that.

And, once again, I agree that it isn’t all men. Unfortunately the ones who it is don’t tell us. They pretend to be like all the other ‘not all men’ men. That’s why you need to be careful.