DP uncomfortable about a school run dad taking DD swimming

[Eastie77Returns]

DD (8) will be attending swimming lessons at a new venue in the New Year. There are a couple of other kids in her class who attend lessons at the same pool, I am friends with both sets of parents. I was chatting to the dad of one of the kids and he mentioned that he and and the other child’s mum take it in turns to take both children swimming each week. He asked if I’d like to join the ‘rotation’ which would mean taking all 3 kids every 3 weeks and I said I’d be happy to. We all live a few minutes walk from each other and DD knows the 2 boys well. I’d already discussed this with the other mum so she is on board.

DP has announced he is uncomfortable about the arrangement as there is a male parent involved (when I originally mentioned the plan to him he thought it would only be mums). I think he is being absolutely ridiculous, I have known the school dad since our children were 2 years old and DD adores him.

However I discussed this with a friend who said she 100% understands why DP is unhappy and I need to see this from his point of view. AIBU??

I think your partner is right. I do all the runs etc with just my kids, regardless of whether you know them or not doesn't mean anything. My kids don't go to sleep overs (even to a families house) nor do they go to people's houses on their own.

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At the end of it all it’s up to you and DP, a low risk is still a risk for me which would have me take my child, and what ever people judge it doesn’t make me or any of the others here weirdos with creepy kids that will live at home forever and never leave the house, it actually makes them realise that mum did everything to protect me and got off her arse to take us everywhere, instead of relying on Rachel and Robbie the potential rapists, cos it made mum’s life a little easier once every few weeks."

This.
People lack awareness. And then when others say no, they're some how the problem. I don't understand why people who say no and place a boundary become the issue when all they're doing is preventing potential harm or they don't want to let another person take their child. I feel disgusted that there always has to be an explanation.

What I've learned from this thread is that OH is a weirdo and possibly a pervert for suggesting DD brings a friend with her on one of their weekly swimming trips.

What not one person has addressed here though is that there is another parent involved that will be left along with 2 children that aren’t hers, the other mum, is it only because the OP talks about this being a man? If it was 3 women would this be a discussion still? To me it makes no difference my view would be the same.

OP if you know this man so well over 10 years and your child adores him so much and you’re all so close friends etc, why has daughter never had a sleep over at his house? People have said I’m cuckoo for not allowing sleep overs so I’m wondering if everyone’s so great and there is 10 years of trusted friendship why hasn’t that happened? Has his kids stayed at yours??
Seems like there’s a more to this story.

@Hertsgirl10

What not one person has addressed here though is that there is another parent involved that will be left along with 2 children that aren’t hers, the other mum, is it only because the OP talks about this being a man? If it was 3 women would this be a discussion still? To me it makes no difference my view would be the same.

OP if you know this man so well over 10 years and your child adores him so much and you’re all so close friends etc, why has daughter never had a sleep over at his house? People have said I’m cuckoo for not allowing sleep overs so I’m wondering if everyone’s so great and there is 10 years of trusted friendship why hasn’t that happened? Has his kids stayed at yours??
Seems like there’s a more to this story.

The OP's DJ's problem is because it's a man. If it was another woman he'd not have a problem and op wouldn't have posted so no it wouldn't be a discussion.

In answer to your other question ime sleepovers tend to be same sex. I've 2 DD's and hosted more sleepovers than I care to remember but nether dc have ever invited or asked for a boy to come and stay

@Hertsgirl10 It's a really good discussion and you're right, if it was a women would it be even considered. In my view, I still wouldn't allow my kids to travel with someone else whether they're male or female.

To add, neither has she been invited to a sleepover by a boy and I'm not aware of other dc in the clas having mixed sex sleepovers either.

Ridiculous!! You do all realise that female abusers exist too right? Heck I grew up being given lifts by various males as a child (all friends/family) used to go into the make changing rooms when little with my dad, changed indispensably for swimming aged around 7…… only times I’ve EVER been sexually abused was in my own home by a direct male relative and by females!!. (I’m 36)

I really feel for men nowadays - forget ‘innocent until proven guilty’ it seems all men are now suspected abusers unless proved they are definite abusers. Makes me worry for my DSs future if this is how he is always going to be seen by society.

@Hertsgirl10 he's not alone with the children at all tho unless you count walking down a street with them as alone? Some parents don't do sleepovers for a hundred reasons not related to child abuse eg no space, don't fancy it, don't like over tired children. You are making out to be suddenly suspicious.

And I’ve also seen what the “I don’t allow my child do do anything at a young age with anyone but me” kids turn in to - afraid if everyone with serious trust issues and usually anxiety. Not all do but a high percentage.

I get it but it is worrying that women are so easily trusted and men aren’t, I have 5 boys I understand why people feel the way they do but till they need protecting. In a situation where a boy was walking with a mum and her daughter’s there would be 0 risk for some people and this narrative needs to change.

My sons have been offered to go to sleep overs with female friends, one gets invited to all girl parties often, I think cos he’s very handsome all the girls love him 😂 he’s always the only boy invited so I wouldn’t find it weird, but even so boys hey invited for sleepovers by boys too.

[quote Forsure69]@Hertsgirl10 It's a really good discussion and you're right, if it was a women would it be even considered. In my view, I still wouldn't allow my kids to travel with someone else whether they're male or female.[/quote]
Not even walking somewhere down a street at 9 tho? At that age mine walked to school which is normal at our school (Yr5)

Personally I'd just take my own DD so that I could be the one to supervise her in the changing rooms and make sure she's safe. 8 is too young imo to expect her to do this alone and the dad will not be allowed to, nor should he, oversee this (assuming separate sex changing rooms). As a pp has mentioned, most abuse incidents take place by a person known to the child, so although it's likely to be far fetched this could be the case, it's certainly not impossible. I agree with your dp in this instance.

@Hertsgirl10

What not one person has addressed here though is that there is another parent involved that will be left along with 2 children that aren’t hers, the other mum, is it only because the OP talks about this being a man? If it was 3 women would this be a discussion still? To me it makes no difference my view would be the same.

OP if you know this man so well over 10 years and your child adores him so much and you’re all so close friends etc, why has daughter never had a sleep over at his house? People have said I’m cuckoo for not allowing sleep overs so I’m wondering if everyone’s so great and there is 10 years of trusted friendship why hasn’t that happened? Has his kids stayed at yours??
Seems like there’s a more to this story.

You think there is ‘more to the story’ because she’s never had a sleepover at the dad’s house ?

DD hasn’t had a sleepover at anyone’s house, she’s never been interested in attending one. I explained this in an earlier post. She has been on play dates at the house since she was tiny.

No, his son hasn’t slept over at mine either. He loves to come over and play with DD and her brother but as far as I’m aware has no interest in a sleepover.

The lack of sleepovers has nothing to do with a lack of trust on my part.

I mean do you actually think my logic is “well I don’t trust this man, he will sexually abuse DD if she sleeps at his house so she can’t do that but she’ll be fine if he takes her to her swimming lesson so I’ll allow that”

Batshit.

And of course, if the dad had invited her for a sleepover dozens of people would say this is a red flag, clearly he is grooming/abusing her..

@explodingeyes
It might have been normal 30 years ago but so was writing letters to Jimmy Saville to fix it for them.
Now most school recommend that year 6 children are aloud to walk to and from school alone, certainly the case in the local schools to me, they wouldn’t let a year 5 leave without a parent.
The generation before you used to walk 5 million miles in the snow just to get to school, or what ever dramatic my Nan and her friends would say 😆

Still finding this argument of I see what kids turn out like when they’re not allowed around strangers a bit odd, who said that kids that aren’t allowed to go with anyone that isn’t trusted by their parents, aren’t allowed out?

Do posters think that were locking them in their rooms and only allowing them the light of day if I can be arsed to take them out 😂

Parents can take their children out anywhere you know? We don’t have to rely on other parents to take our kids places. Just because we don’t palm our kids to anyone that’s willing to take them, for play dates or sleepovers, it don’t mean that they’re getting locked in the attic with no social life, I mean come on is it really this weird to safeguard our own children? Is it really so strange that people want to 100% trust who they leave their kid with?

@Hertsgirl10 in our urban area Yr5 walking home school is perfectly normal at all the local schools. Yr5 can walk home also if they have a permission slip. Some do some don't depending on how far they have to walk & roads to cross.
Vast majority live below a mile from their primaries in busy areas.
So yes 9 year olds do it. Yr6 90% do it.

@Ifonlyidknownthen it's not single sex changing rooms. It's changing village type ones with all individual cubicles as OP keeps stating. And child can change her self.

Your DP is doing as he should and trying to protect his daughter. This is an adult male who's unknown to him and will have responsibility for your daughter when she's vulnerable. Most abusers external to family are lovely and both kids and parents tend to love them, that's how they get close enough to abuse! I wouldn't personally, no matter how great he seems why take the chance?

OP I was saying that people who are so close to a family like you’re trying go put across, usually do have sleep overs. It sounds like you’re not actually that close and I haven’t said once that he might be an abuser, Iv said that I personally wouldn’t trust anyone (male or female) that I didn’t know 100% with any of my children. And that is super strange to you and others. But you know him 100% so what’s the whole issue here?

You do like to take what you want out of a post and run with it, don’t you?

So how was you getting her to lessons before this opportunity to not take her came up?

Don't see what the fuss is , DD will be with him one week in 3 , why only worry about the Dad why not the other mom or even op or is it just because he's a man ?

Wow. I can't believe the responses here. All these people who wouldn't leave their DD alone (or with a small group of other kids) with a known male? Purely because they are male?? Not because they have every done or said anything to make you uncomfortable? I'm properly shocked.

I would be persuading your DP he is being completely unreasonable unless he has anything more to back up his discomfort.

[quote explodingeyes]@Hertsgirl10 in our urban area Yr5 walking home school is perfectly normal at all the local schools. Yr5 can walk home also if they have a permission slip. Some do some don't depending on how far they have to walk & roads to cross.
Vast majority live below a mile from their primaries in busy areas.
So yes 9 year olds do it. Yr6 90% do it. [/quote]
@explodingeyes

90% of year 5 walk home alone? I think this is a big over exaggeration.
I am in an urban area and childminders still pick children up in year 5, maybe your school/parents have decided it’s ok but never 90% of children. Maybe the odd few but definitely not around here, even in year 6 the children need written permission.

Do you work in a school as well as the local swimming pool cos you know a lot about primary school kids considering your own are 30.

But where exactly is the opportunity to molest this child in the scenario OP described. That's why people are saying it's fine.

I hate even talking about this subject. But abusers will find a way.

By letting the child go with this man, you are teaching her that he is a trusted adult. It may happen at swimming or at some point in the future because he has been allowed to build a bond ...groom this child. This is often how things begin. And mum and/or dad would never have thought it because they know him and trust him. Sometimes the child doesn’t feel they can tell anyone. Sometimes they tell and are not even believed. OP has already said she trusts this man completely, which is utterly ridiculous. This man may be lovely, but maybe not. Having complete trust in someone means you won’t think as OP has shown. And what if one day her daughter does say something happened or even she just feels uncomfortable at a comment he made.....’oh no daughter, not him, I trust him completely, there’s ‘less that zero’ chance of that’. Because that happens. And if OP is already saying she has complete trust in him, it’s more likely.

@Hertsgirl10

I get it but it is worrying that women are so easily trusted and men aren’t, I have 5 boys I understand why people feel the way they do but till they need protecting. In a situation where a boy was walking with a mum and her daughter’s there would be 0 risk for some people and this narrative needs to change.

My sons have been offered to go to sleep overs with female friends, one gets invited to all girl parties often, I think cos he’s very handsome all the girls love him 😂 he’s always the only boy invited so I wouldn’t find it weird, but even so boys hey invited for sleepovers by boys too.

www.openaccessgovernment.org/97-of-women-in-the-uk/105940/

Can't think why women are more trusted than men. It's a real mystery that's for sure. Want to take a guess on who's abusing 97% of women, or better yet, how many young men have been sexually harassed 🤔🤔🤔

@explodingeyes how does that compare? The risk is less? Walking from A to B in a public area is less risky than going to a sleepover where any family member can drop in. But also going to a swimming pool that changing rooms aren't maned and very little people about (I know our pool hasn't many people about)

My 4 boys have freedom with boundaries.

@Nosquit How is it trust issues when you've experienced something- learned from it and placed boundaries- I.e. health and safety? A child will develop anxiety out of fear; the fear brought on by others because something/situation hasn't been properly nutured, explained or educated.
So, when a child has experienced respect and understanding accurately then the likelihood of anxiety reduces. Also, low level of anxiety is normal it's a natural body response!

The father has every right to voice his concern and I don't believe he is wrong in doing so. Again, anything my kids do, myself and husband will take them. Nothing to do with trust issue everything to do with being available for my children!