DP uncomfortable about a school run dad taking DD swimming

[Eastie77Returns]

DD (8) will be attending swimming lessons at a new venue in the New Year. There are a couple of other kids in her class who attend lessons at the same pool, I am friends with both sets of parents. I was chatting to the dad of one of the kids and he mentioned that he and and the other child’s mum take it in turns to take both children swimming each week. He asked if I’d like to join the ‘rotation’ which would mean taking all 3 kids every 3 weeks and I said I’d be happy to. We all live a few minutes walk from each other and DD knows the 2 boys well. I’d already discussed this with the other mum so she is on board.

DP has announced he is uncomfortable about the arrangement as there is a male parent involved (when I originally mentioned the plan to him he thought it would only be mums). I think he is being absolutely ridiculous, I have known the school dad since our children were 2 years old and DD adores him.

However I discussed this with a friend who said she 100% understands why DP is unhappy and I need to see this from his point of view. AIBU??

[quote explodingeyes]@Vynalbob have you only got very young children? At 9/10 they are old enough to go to toilets on their own and they don't need to all stick together in a changing facility with separate cubicles.
Parents would mainly just wait for the DC to shower and then go get themselves changed. They wouldn't generally slip on the wet floor as they aren't allowed by staff to run about.

[/quote]
Yep lots of (not recent) experience and also the experience to know Sod's Law sometimes kicks you when you least expect it... especially if your predicting the actions of children and the competence of staff.
9/10 times it will be fine but I'd want better odds and wouldn't dismiss my OH s feelings even if I thought them unfounded.

If it’s swimming lessons then he wouldn’t b getting in with her he kids. That would worry me if that was the case.
There are other kids in the group but I’d worry if other kids were off swimming some weeks and my DC ended up as the only other kid with him in the car. I am a bit of a worrier though

For me it goes-

**The vast majority of parents are actively interested in protecting their children.
Sexual abuse is nightmare scenario, and I doubt anyone has managed to miss all the need stories over the years, all the info in ads, it coming up in conversation sometimes etc.

The number of parents who either aren't aware of sexual abuse being a risk in general and that offenders are usually trusted and cunning and happy to take their time. Must be be pretty low.

** Parents in general are doing their best for their children. They want them to be safe, happy, risk taking/wary to appropriate levels as they grow up. Rounded, confident, sensible, risk aware. So as they go through life they have learnt to be wary /take risks as appropriate.

** I would say without doubt that on this thread posters are not unaware of, indifferent to the fact that children can and are molested by trusted men, and you can't tell who is which.

** Everyone has different fears, different experiences, different levels of risk level for different things.

The idea that either 'sides' of this argument are going to have a terrible impact on children is unhelpful, and unless it affects massive part of child's life and is extreme. Well it's not right to say generally this will mean terrible things for children.

And in the end. It's not like either side will say oh yeah that's true actually and completely change their deeply embedded attitudes to various risks. It's just upsetting for loads of people esp with personal reasons for their views.

@Hollywolly1

I think its unfair to put your little girl in that position no matter how good the other dad is

Really my DD would object if she couldn't just walk with her mates to swimming.

@Hertsgirl10 whilst most adults in kids activities are dbs checked, I can totally guarantee not all are. Most grassroots or volunteer activities get round to them quite quickly but it's naive to think they all are before any volunteer work done.
DBS checks only highlight convicted offenders. Not suspected ones. Not ones with concerns raised. Not ones on a police radar. Cases can take 1-2 years at the moment to convict even if the evidence is clear.
Safeguarding is about weighing up situations, risks and looking out for certain signs

What position is she putting her 8yo in?

She's having swimming lessons, walking with 2 children she knows, with a dad she knows. It's a changing village mixed sex, individual locking cubicles. Getting ready she has swimmers on already just takes off top layer. Not tricky or revealing.

Parent taking 3 8yo swimming lesson, two children in his care. He will go in changing village (same as the other parents), get 3 cubicles close together as possible, hover between them, hurry them up, when they emerge watch them head off to pool.

Then he'll breath a sigh of relief same as the other parents and there will be a large exodus to cafe to spend 30 mins drinking coffee and looking at phone.

Head back changing in a herd of parents when they get out. Cubicles hover what do you mean you can't find your socks. Out walk home. He may end up carrying all the bags while they do their 8yo children stuff.

What position is she being put in?

I guess I just feel unfortunately childhood sexual abuse just isn't as rare a thing as we would all wish it was.

Some stats below may help to clarify this, look at the number of crimes identified in just one year in the UK. Yes some of these will be historical...but more than 1400 a week in the UK in 2018-2019. That is just the identified crimes...not all of the under the radar activity happening- for me I believe the visible stuff is the tip of the iceberg.

Below copied and pasted from ONS website-

The Crime Survey for England and Wales (CSEW) estimated that 7.5% of adults aged 18 to 74 years experienced sexual abuse before the age of 16 years (3.1 million people); this includes both adult and child perpetrators.

The abuse was most likely to have been perpetrated by a friend or acquaintance (37%); around a third (30%) were sexually abused by a stranger.

The majority of victims did not tell anyone about their sexual abuse at the time, with “embarrassment” being the most common reason.

In the year ending March 2019, the police in England and Wales recorded 73,260 sexual offences where there are data to identify the victim was a child.

[quote explodingeyes]@Hertsgirl10 whilst most adults in kids activities are dbs checked, I can totally guarantee not all are. Most grassroots or volunteer activities get round to them quite quickly but it's naive to think they all are before any volunteer work done.
DBS checks only highlight convicted offenders. Not suspected ones. Not ones with concerns raised. Not ones on a police radar. Cases can take 1-2 years at the moment to convict even if the evidence is clear.
Safeguarding is about weighing up situations, risks and looking out for certain signs [/quote]
@explodingeyes

I mean this is why it’s more important for parents to not just leave their kids with just anyone?

We should all know that even people with DBS checks could well have just not been caught yet, as much as they’re fully innocent.

Safeguarding my own children doesn’t come to weigh up or leave any space for an opportunity for anyone .. male, female, old or teens even, to get a chance.

But for the OP scenario I can see exactly where she’s coming from with her husband and why she would be confused as the daughter has spent time in this man’s house, so I wouldn’t understand why he’s not happy with this situation.

I think that people on here belittling other people’s safeguarding parenting style really should look up Adam Whittington and learn some safeguarding of their own, so many parents still put their kids pics on social media and names in their online bios or even dating profiles, and see no issue with this. I suspect a lot of mum’s here don’t either.
I know this post isn’t about that but there is quite a few worrying comments here.

There are other kids in the group but I’d worry if other kids were off swimming some weeks and my DC ended up as the only other kid with him in the car. I am a bit of a worrier though
If the dads dc was off swimming don't you think he'd be at home looking after his own child with one of the other parents stepping in rather than leaving him home alone so he could take other children swimming. People are really trying quite hard to invent possible scenarios here

@Hertsgirl10

So no one finds it concerning that a social worker and child protection assessor thinks the risk is low because she’s known him 10 years?

Starting to see why how people get away with so much if this is really the view of a child protection officer.

Even foster carers are taught better than this about safeguarding children.

Would you all leave your kids with a childminder or after school club that didn’t have the right checks? Or a scouts club that didn’t have DBS checks? What’s the difference?

Just can’t imagine it myself and highly doubt a social worker and child protection officer would recommend this either, but it explains a lot about current events if this is how they’re protecting the vulnerable.

Actually we’re taught to risk assess. This is a risk that I would take with both my own children and my foster children.

We’re taught not to over protect because this can be damaging to a child as well. We’re supposed to let them have experiences and grow.

I do a school run rotation with a couple of local parents, none are DBS checked. I’m expected to use my own risk assessing skills to decide.

@Insanelysilver

If it’s swimming lessons then he wouldn’t b getting in with her he kids. That would worry me if that was the case. There are other kids in the group but I’d worry if other kids were off swimming some weeks and my DC ended up as the only other kid with him in the car. I am a bit of a worrier though

For the now sixth time: there is no car involved

@MrsPnut

I am with you OP, I was a social worker on an initial assessment team (child protection), and I would have no concerns in the situation being proposed.

You’ve known him for years, your daughter has had multiple play dates at his house. He has had ample opportunity in the past if he had nefarious intents.
Swimming rota would mean one lesson in three he would walk all the kids to the pool, they would get changed in a unisex village in separate cubicles and go to their lesson. Come back after lessons to get changed again in separate cubicles when the village will be full of parents and carers hurrying up their child so they can go home.

How on earth would that be an ideal place to decide to abuse a child when they could have done it in their own home. There are all kinds of red flags for someone wanting to be inappropriately close to a child such as excessive tickling and engineering babysitting but standing in a changing village telling three kids to hurry up and get their socks on isn’t one.

Thank you for weighing in with an opinion based on actual facts.

So many comments about safeguarding risks that do not bear any relation to the reality I’ve described: other adult swimmers accessing DD when I’ve explained there are no adult swim sessions at that time, there are only children swimming. DD drowning (in a supervised swimming lesson ), the non existent car the dad will be driving her around in, secret cameras and spy holes..

I’m surprised some children ever leave their homes.

It must be awful for the DD's of full-time single fathers.
I can't see any risk with the three DC walking there and back with no enclosed spaces or opportunities to be alone.
I suffered SA as a DC by an older cousin but i also went swimming and other fun places with friends fathers, even if the want was there the opportunities wasn't.
I would be wary if DD wanted a sleepover in a single fathers home, walking somewhere in a group is fine imo.

I don’t get your OP’s point of view (unless he himself has raging paedophilic tendencies). The parents are well know to you and I don’t see the problem

@catzwhiskas

As I said before, in the past I was trusting and assumed the best of people . This was a mistake and I now know that this is exactly how children are endangered. I am not saying that this particular man is dangerous but he is as likely to be as not. And we should revert to single sex facilities as the evidence shows that more sexual offences to women and girls happen in mixed sex spaces. And I have also been involved in foster care and social work and the scales have totally fallen from my eyes. I wish the posters here who thing some of us are too extreme would consider our evidence and experience more carefully. Being kind to the men does not make us or our children safer.

What about this scenario, where he won't be alone with her at any point do you find worrying?

Don’t listen to random people on the internet claiming to be social workers. I think you should work on all aspects of child safety including e safety. You sound very naive.

I can see where your dp is coming from.
What if your dd needed assistance getting changed? Also will she be left in the female changing room alone while the school dad waits for the boys in the male changing room?
I wouldn't do it personally. Quite a strange thing to let another adult take your child swimming on a regular basis IMO.

Also think it's a bit odd to say your dd "adores him"

@lemondrop21

I can see where your dp is coming from. What if your dd needed assistance getting changed? Also will she be left in the female changing room alone while the school dad waits for the boys in the male changing room? I wouldn't do it personally. Quite a strange thing to let another adult take your child swimming on a regular basis IMO.

Also think it's a bit odd to say your dd "adores him"

Have you read the OPs 31 posts?

@lemondrop21

I can see where your dp is coming from. What if your dd needed assistance getting changed? Also will she be left in the female changing room alone while the school dad waits for the boys in the male changing room? I wouldn't do it personally. Quite a strange thing to let another adult take your child swimming on a regular basis IMO.

Also think it's a bit odd to say your dd "adores him"

That's not the circumstances. Read a few posts lower. It's not seperate changing rooms it's individual cubicles and the child needs no help getting dressed and undressed. Even if it wasn't it would be fine. 9 year olds are old enough

@HangingOutWithTheSandman

Don’t listen to random people on the internet claiming to be social workers. I think you should work on all aspects of child safety including e safety. You sound very naive.

But where exactly is the opportunity to molest this child in the scenario OP described. That's why people are saying it's fine.

Quite frankly seeing the news recently where two innocent children died at the hands of women, I really don’t understand his gender bias.

@Bluntness100

Quite frankly seeing the news recently where two innocent children died at the hands of women, I really don’t understand his gender bias.

Statistically more likely to be male but absolutely should not rule out females being abusers too.

How wonderful for @AnkleDeep that they’ve never been abused or been touched by the affects of it and have the privilege of calling others paranoid so quickly. I’m appalled by you.

[quote Kanaloa]@saraclara

I’ve actually replied to you about all the other dads more than once. I’ve said that firstly I dislike mixed sex changing rooms, and also that I would rather be with my children when they are changing around unfamiliar strange men.

I don’t think that’s en extremist point of view really.[/quote]
Yes you have said that but given that in this situation there are mixed changing rooms with cubicles what could the Dad do when he brings her that he couldn't do when he was there anyway?

OP asks for opinions on her situation. Gets mixed opinions …
Thanks only people that agree with her and then makes out that people with concerns, which her own husband has, are the weird ones and is shocked anyones kids leave home among other belittling comments about the victims of child abusers that are giving their expert opinions, but thanks the ‘social worker’ that has ‘experience’ do these survivors not then? I would say the people that have lived through abuse are the actual experts myself.

How was you getting this child to and from swimming before you heard about this set up anyway?

I have asked a few times why DP is happy to have your dC go on play dates and not to be taken to swimming which has been ignored, cos I actually agree with you considering that, has it not made anyone think maybe he had an experience as a child in a pool and it’s triggered something for him?

Basically if it suits people to leave their kids alone with people then it’s fine, when a news story comes out people say, why do people leave their kids alone with people they barely know.

At the end of it all it’s up to you and DP, a low risk is still a risk for me which would have me take my child, and what ever people judge it doesn’t make me or any of the others here weirdos with creepy kids that will live at home forever and never leave the house, it actually makes them realise that mum did everything to protect me and got off her arse to take us everywhere, instead of relying on Rachel and Robbie the potential rapists, cos it made mum’s life a little easier once every few weeks.

And people that say they don’t know anyone with this view in real life, you do but we dont go around saying we don’t leave our kids with people we don’t know, we politely say no, our kids aren’t taught that they aren’t allowed, it’s not hard to discreetly decline and it’s likely that a lot of mum and dads have been the same with you and you’ve never noticed.