DP uncomfortable about a school run dad taking DD swimming

[Eastie77Returns]

DD (8) will be attending swimming lessons at a new venue in the New Year. There are a couple of other kids in her class who attend lessons at the same pool, I am friends with both sets of parents. I was chatting to the dad of one of the kids and he mentioned that he and and the other child’s mum take it in turns to take both children swimming each week. He asked if I’d like to join the ‘rotation’ which would mean taking all 3 kids every 3 weeks and I said I’d be happy to. We all live a few minutes walk from each other and DD knows the 2 boys well. I’d already discussed this with the other mum so she is on board.

DP has announced he is uncomfortable about the arrangement as there is a male parent involved (when I originally mentioned the plan to him he thought it would only be mums). I think he is being absolutely ridiculous, I have known the school dad since our children were 2 years old and DD adores him.

However I discussed this with a friend who said she 100% understands why DP is unhappy and I need to see this from his point of view. AIBU??

If the OP doesn't join this swimming supervision group then this man is there every other week.
On those occasions he could be in the changing room, why is he not a problem then?

@Eastie77Returns, maybe MrsPnut's post above is what your DH needs to read (or be told about).

@marcopront

If the OP doesn't join this swimming supervision group then this man is there every other week. On those occasions he could be in the changing room, why is he not a problem then?

A good point, but wasted. Because the paranoia on here is absolutely impervious to reason. I've asked a similar question several time (about all the other dads in the changing area) and not got a single sane reply.

I should add that when I worked for a year at a swimming baths as a lifeguard, at least 50% of the parents bringing children to the pool for any reason, were dads. Including dads with daughters and their mates. Loads of dads take kids swimming. So on a typical day there would be a lot of dads milling about in all areas.
Staff do actually also keep an eye out for any unusual behaviours too and report and concerns.

@Eastie77Returns

It would be a mixed cubicle environment as they do not have male/female changing rooms at this pool. It’s a changing ‘village’ with individual cubicles.

DD would have her swimsuit on underneath her clothes beforehand and is more than capable of getting dressed herself after the lesson - she is almost 9!

DP says he has nothing against the dad personally but is just uncomfortable with the arrangement. He doesn’t know him particularly well but has met him many times on play dates in the park etc.

I understand abusers are usually known to their victims etc but have known this man for almost a decade and trust him completely. The chances of anything untoward happening with DD are less than zero. I just don’t know if I’m BU to disregard DP’s concerns.

You haven't known him for "nearly a decade"... you seem to have known him for 6.5 years.

Your DP isn't comfortable. So you shouldn't be doing it.

I wouldn't be entirely comfortable with it either. She's a girl...other kids are boys...and the Dad is a dad. Nothing untoward.... just doesn't sit right with me. Also she could start her periods at 9. I think a female adult or her Dad should be with her when swimming regularly.

It doesn't seem like the dad would be alone with her at any point, presumably if his child isn't going when it's his turn he also wouldn't walk them- so there'll always be at least one another person, and he isn't going near the changing rooms, which are very public anyway and wouldn't go unnoticed . I agree with others that it's not fair to disregard his feelings on it, but

Everyone should take their own children swimming instead of farming them out to other people .If children were so much bother to take them swimming why have them

I think its unfair to put your little girl in that position no matter how good the other dad is

I’m with your DP on this. I would not be sending my dd in this situation. Even if there is a 0.00001 chance of it happening, it’s a risk I would not be willing to take.

I don't think I would have a problem with it as she can get changed in her own cubicle and there are two other kids there so it's not just her and the dad. You also know this dad well and trust him. Just because he is a man doesn't mean that something untoward will happen.
Having said that if DP is really uncomfortable with the situation I think it's best to respect that.

I think it’s a bit boringly paranoid. It doesn’t sound as though he would be in any contact with her changing wise. The % of male child sex abusers what would that be against non abusers? And anyway you have a good feeling about him and know him well. Your daughter perfectly capable of talking to you if anything came up. Is your DP perhaps a bit jealous of Another man taking her swimming? Not sexually just re important Growing up experience?

Well, here's a fine quandry, no? A MAN is stepping up and being a responsible father, and another man is concerned about it. Now, had that same father refused to take part in this, and his wife had posted about it here, we'd have been up in arms, reminding her that he is a parent, too!

And so many answers indicating concern...I understand a general concern, but OP has stated that she has known this man for ten years and trusts him. Ten years, people. And please, let's not forget that women can be sexual preditors, as well, and often are.

[quote Bovrilly]@perfectstorm

I think the assumption that all kids can manage as well as your own is perhaps misplaced.

This is about the OP's child, not mine (about whom you know nothing) and unlike you I am not assuming anything - by the time you posted she had made it perfectly clear that her DD was capable of changing by herself. She had also made it clear that the man in question would be walking the children to and from the pool and waiting in the cafe while they were swimming. And yet you still spouted this rubbish about the DD being at risk while he performed "unsupervised intimate care". Absolute nonsense.[/quote]
I appreciate that there may be something in your own life right now that is fuelling your anger, but it's not exactly helping your point when you choose to make it in such a needlessly unpleasant and spiteful way. Why don't you try to engage like one human being, talking to another? It's not personal, surely, so why doggedly seek to make it so?

It's not just about the OP's child, when poster after poster blithely insists that abuse is very rare, and that women are just as likely to be abusive. Both are simply wrong, and the beliefs place children at risk. Grooming happens slowly and if the OP's partner is uneasy, as she says herself a discussion needs to be had on why.

Abuse doesn't happen because a young child can or can't dress themselves, anyway (though I have already conceded that I was considering my own child's abilities there, not the OP's). It happens when there is an opportunity for an adult to exert their authority to cross boundaries, and with a known abuser, it's generally a slow process, and opportunistic. Which is why some of us are very clear on our own boundaries. Our children will be the safer for it, and it's hard to fathom why people confident in their own choices are made so angry by our own. It doesn't affect your children, does it.

All I know is that abuse is common, and the best way to prevent it is to be extremely cautious until they reach a stage where they can recognise their own boundaries, and enforce them. In my view, 9 is too small for that. And if the OP's partner is expressing unease, then it's presumably similar for him (though I do get what she means about playdates etc.).

@saraclara

I’ve actually replied to you about all the other dads more than once. I’ve said that firstly I dislike mixed sex changing rooms, and also that I would rather be with my children when they are changing around unfamiliar strange men.

I don’t think that’s en extremist point of view really.

So no one finds it concerning that a social worker and child protection assessor thinks the risk is low because she’s known him 10 years?

Starting to see why how people get away with so much if this is really the view of a child protection officer.

Even foster carers are taught better than this about safeguarding children.

Would you all leave your kids with a childminder or after school club that didn’t have the right checks? Or a scouts club that didn’t have DBS checks? What’s the difference?

Just can’t imagine it myself and highly doubt a social worker and child protection officer would recommend this either, but it explains a lot about current events if this is how they’re protecting the vulnerable.

@Hertsgirl10 are you saying your children can’t go on play dates unless the other parents are DBS checked?

Surely you see the difference between an eight year old being walked from their home to the swimming pool, in a group of children, supervised by one of their parents, and a formal childcare setting?

Only on Mumsnet do you get women moaning that men don't do enough with the children and need to 'step up and parent', yet when a dad offers to help other mum's out by taking their DCs swimming, they're practically branded as paedos... disgusting.

Also reminds me of a thread where a SAHDad couldn't go to a baby group as one mum was breastfeeding no wonder men have such a hard time 'parenting' if this is what they're up against.

@Hertsgirl10

So no one finds it concerning that a social worker and child protection assessor thinks the risk is low because she’s known him 10 years?

Starting to see why how people get away with so much if this is really the view of a child protection officer.

Even foster carers are taught better than this about safeguarding children.

Would you all leave your kids with a childminder or after school club that didn’t have the right checks? Or a scouts club that didn’t have DBS checks? What’s the difference?

Just can’t imagine it myself and highly doubt a social worker and child protection officer would recommend this either, but it explains a lot about current events if this is how they’re protecting the vulnerable.

What social workers are taught to do is assess risk, there could be a million risks identified in the course of a conversation when someone has known a person for years but in the facts that have been disclosed here, I would have few concerns.

I don’t think just length of time known is a good thing, I do think actions of a person over the length of time you have known them is an indicator of the level of risk they pose.
My DH worked with someone for years, we weren’t friends outside work and he had very high level security clearance. It came as a massive shock to everyone when he was convicted for having CSA images in his computer. You need
To judge people on what they do and abusers don’t in my experience pass up opportunities like play dates in their home.

[quote Changechangychange]@Hertsgirl10 are you saying your children can’t go on play dates unless the other parents are DBS checked?

Surely you see the difference between an eight year old being walked from their home to the swimming pool, in a group of children, supervised by one of their parents, and a formal childcare setting?[/quote]
@Changechangychange
Yes i have already been called a shit parent with nervous wreck children for that tonight 😂

I leave my children with a few people that I trust, I don’t risk their safety, for the many reasons that, like the victims of abuse on this post have said, and ignored.

No. DP is being unreasonable. Kids need to get to know people outside the family who are safe. You didn't just meet this man yesterday. You have known him a long time. This is the reason why so many young people today think they have to report adults who simply look at them to the police... They have at no time spent any time with anyone other than family. As you say most kids are abused by relatives or coaches...
If DP won't trust your daughter to this man, he needs to explain it to the man and then commit to doing the swim run himself.

I agree with what you’ve just said and so you must understand surely that some of us would have concerns about and would rather not take the risk, given your personally experience.

@LittleMissUnreasonable

Only on Mumsnet do you get women moaning that men don't do enough with the children and need to 'step up and parent', yet when a dad offers to help other mum's out by taking their DCs swimming, they're practically branded as paedos... disgusting.

Also reminds me of a thread where a SAHDad couldn't go to a baby group as one mum was breastfeeding no wonder men have such a hard time 'parenting' if this is what they're up against.

Yep. I need to walk away from this thread. The hypocrisy in addition to the paranoia is making me fear for people's powers of reason and logic.

Fortunately, in real life, I've never come across such ridiculousness.

Perfect storm yes you are generally right of course.

In this case though, that would mean no playdates? Should OP be concerned that he has already abused? There will I'm sure have been opportunities with two families with same age children and families been friends for 6 years?

Thinking 8yo,

When it comes to boys there seems to be a lot of determined men who abuse via roles.
Football coaches, religious leaders, teachers, scout leaders, that sort of thing. Get into positions of trust and then seemingly often with a network of like minded men, carry out widespread long term, systematic abuse.

Can there be a balance? How to approach that? Yes of course (apart from teachers) those are not compulsory and can just not do. How can that risk be squared with child being able to pursue interests etc?

Of course for girls all the above. Plus many more abused and wider range of methods common. (Which also apply to boys obv). Opportunistic, grooming, attacked at school by boy/s (think/hope uncommon that young but we don't really know), etc etc.

Given that no one can tell which men are paedophilic abusers.

What is the actual answer?

I remember being taken swimming a few times by a friend's dad at that age and all was fine. now most changing areas are mixed family and not separated male & female but should imagine she will have to go In a cubical on her own.
I totally understand your dh concerns though and not sure I'd be comfortable with it myself to be honest even though I was taken by a dad myself at that age.
I have been shocked in the past when I have discovered a couple of men in my local area, one a school dad were found out to be pedophiles and it being in the local newspaper.
These men were the nicest, most friendliest men you could meet you would never suspect them of anything like that. one even worked as a PCSO. for this reason I will never entirely trust any man other than my dp and df around my children.

As I said before, in the past I was trusting and assumed the best of people . This was a mistake and I now know that this is exactly how children are endangered. I am not saying that this particular man is dangerous but he is as likely to be as not. And we should revert to single sex facilities as the evidence shows that more sexual offences to women and girls happen in mixed sex spaces. And I have also been involved in foster care and social work and the scales have totally fallen from my eyes. I wish the posters here who thing some of us are too extreme would consider our evidence and experience more carefully. Being kind to the men does not make us or our children safer.