DP uncomfortable about a school run dad taking DD swimming

[Eastie77Returns]

DD (8) will be attending swimming lessons at a new venue in the New Year. There are a couple of other kids in her class who attend lessons at the same pool, I am friends with both sets of parents. I was chatting to the dad of one of the kids and he mentioned that he and and the other child’s mum take it in turns to take both children swimming each week. He asked if I’d like to join the ‘rotation’ which would mean taking all 3 kids every 3 weeks and I said I’d be happy to. We all live a few minutes walk from each other and DD knows the 2 boys well. I’d already discussed this with the other mum so she is on board.

DP has announced he is uncomfortable about the arrangement as there is a male parent involved (when I originally mentioned the plan to him he thought it would only be mums). I think he is being absolutely ridiculous, I have known the school dad since our children were 2 years old and DD adores him.

However I discussed this with a friend who said she 100% understands why DP is unhappy and I need to see this from his point of view. AIBU??

@Bovrilly

if you exclude opportunity for a male person to perform unsupervised intimate care for your child, then you reduce their risks of abuse to almost nothing

OK, but what "unsupervised intimate care" do you think this man is "performing" for the OP's DD? Is it the walking to the swimming pool or the walking back that's the problem? Or sitting in the cafe?
Utterly ridiculous.

@Bovrilly as I explained, my kids have additional needs. They needed/still need help changing at this age. I can't comment on a neurotypical child's capacities at 9, because I don't have one. But given lots of kids aren't diagnosed until everything falls apart for them in secondary, I think the assumption that all kids can manage as well as your own is perhaps misplaced.

The OP has clarified that her own child can (and was also kind enough to clarify that she accepted that was a NT level of development), and that's great. It doesn't mean they all can.

@Eastie77Returns

Thank you to those of you with balanced responses that have brought some sanity to the thread!

I've taken on board the comments that I cannot simply disregard DP's feelings. Fair enough. He has misgivings that he cannot articulate beyond "it is not appropriate" but I'm not going to just ride roughshod over this feelings.

However, laying that aside, some of the attitudes and comments on here are perplexing and depressing to say the least.

I see people are still commenting on the dangers of the lift share, DD being the last one left in the car...once again the dad will not be driving. Everyone walks to the swimming pool.

I’ve been accused of being lax because I’m not supervising DD whilst she swims. She’s attending a swimming lesson so there is a teacher and a lifeguard in the pool. No supervision from parents required.

I'm reading that some of you have 9 & 10 year old children who cannot dry and dress themselves/feel uncomfortable doing so and I'm putting DD at risk because she "might need help". Help with what? I’ve never met a NT 9 year old who cannot use a a towel and put their own clothes on. KS1 Primary school aged children who attend PE and swimming lessons have to do this on their own as teachers cannot help 30+ children.

As I've already pointed out, DD has been to his house for play dates over the last 8 years. On occasion in the last couple of years we have left her there (birthday parties, playing after school with his son and other kids) which would have given him ample opportunity to practice evil deeds. Instead, many of you think it is entirely feasible that he is going to wait until he takes DD swimming every 3 weeks, find some pretext to go into the changing village and engineer his way into her locked cubicle and then attempt to abuse her with other children close by.

Alternatively I've also read that he might try to abuse her on the walk home from the swimming pool whilst the other children walk on ahead. I can't even fathom what kind of scenario that would involve

I'm aware many paedophiles brazenly abuse children in plain sight and I'm not trying to make light of the very real and serious issue of child sexual abuse but some of the comments on this thread are ridiculous. I'm not even going to comment on the "I've never left my DD with a man apart from DH" except to say that level of mistrust sounds exhausting and stressful.

@Eastie77Returns

I think you need to ask him why it’s not ok for him to take her when he’s happy for her to spend time at his house for play dates and things, I can see why you’re confused about this if he’s not so strict about other things like this.

@Alisae

I realise in this case the man says he would not be going in.

A) Who would know if he did? ‘Oh, she’s forgotten this, I’ll take it to her’.

B) Assuming he is a good man, would a child that age know what to do (or even notice) if another man in the changing room was angling a camera above or below the adjoining cubicle door?

Angling a camera above the door…I mean, this thread is truly taking a surreal turn..

But in answer to your question, yes I think DD would notice and mention it if a camera appeared above her head in the cubicle

He is perfectly within his rights to be unsure of this. I probably would be too. Most abusers are known to the child and the reason they don't get caught is because trust them. If she is 8 and well versed on the pants rule, will use a changing room by herself and knows what to do if she feels uncomfortable then I might allow it. It depends on the child

@Hertsgirl10 mine are 28 & 30 and not been abused, one married with a DS.

You are a totally wrong with fact?

Lockdown had nothing to do with the reason why I believe one or more of your children will have anxiety.

They've been taught to trust no one, it's just completely bizarre!

I’m staggered. Posters are actually saying all men should be regarded as abusers so all our sons are literally potential abusers in waiting.

Utterly bonkers!

Angling a camera above the door…I mean, this thread is truly taking a surreal turn...

There were issues in a pool local to us with an unknown perv drilling ‘peep’ holes in the mixed sex family changing room walks (unfortunately not the same man as the man who was convicted).

It’s not exactly unheard of. There are horrific places on the internet where men share these opportunistic photos they’ve taken. Twitter is awash with men filming themselves in mixed sex changing rooms wanking in a cubicle.

So, given it’s not a rare occurrence, who is one of these frighteningly common perverts going to attempt to film? A supervised child or an 8 year old girl on her own?

@Untang13d

I’m staggered. Posters are actually saying all men should be regarded as abusers so all our sons are literally potential abusers in waiting.

Utterly bonkers!

Thank you!

The voice of reason!

[quote Offmyfence]@Hertsgirl10 mine are 28 & 30 and not been abused, one married with a DS.

You are a totally wrong with fact?

Lockdown had nothing to do with the reason why I believe one or more of your children will have anxiety.

They've been taught to trust no one, it's just completely bizarre!

[/quote]
@Offmyfence

You have totally misunderstood what I meant about lockdown and social anxiety, I know exactly what you’re implying about my parenting, I’m not thick.

And what I said is fact, going by the responses here.

People can be married with a son and be hiding childhood abuse but ok.

They’ve not been taught to trust no one?
I just decided not to leave them with strangers, I don’t know what’s so strange about that … people left their kids with Micheal Jackson once, would you have? Probably 😂

People left their kids with Jimmy Savile.
The list goes on, but 30 years ago this was happening and no one noticed or suspected a thing.

Not saying anything extreme would happen ever, but I would rather never risk it. And they are extreme cases, it happens though, doesn’t it?

If you weighed up the risks and decided it was ok that’s good for you, and with all due respect child protection and the way children are raised now compared to 30 years has changed a lot, thank god.

Does this mean some of you have never let your children go to sleepovers at their friends house or stay over at grandparents or other family members.
How would you feel if you found out that some of your children’s friends haven’t been allowed to come to play dates/parties/sleepovers because another parent doesn’t trust your parent.
Believe me, I know about the dangers of sexual assault as I was abused by a family member for 10 years but I hate to think that my children were missing out on lots of fun because I was too cynical of every male I have ever met. Obviously, you get to know someone before you leave your child with them, and you trust your instincts. Although we leave our children with unfamiliar adults all the time, teachers being the ones we trust implicitly but have lots of opportunity.
Just food for thought.

@CottonSock

My 8yo is shattered after swimming and can't dress herself very well. I don't she'd be comfortable with a male.

If her dad took her she'd have to get changed alone though.

@pollymere

A penis doesn't make someone a child abuser. Children are abused by women just as much. Ask him how he'd feel being accused of being an abuser just because he has a penis.

Well that's completely wrong. Most abuse is carried out by males. But not in the context the OP describes, where the chance of any kind of abuse would be vanishingly unlikely.

Posters are actually saying all men should be regarded as abusers so all our sons are literally potential abusers in waiting

@Untang13d I treat any male that isn’t dh as though they have the potential to be an abuser, yes.

Though, I don’t get all the faux concern over our sons. In my experience good men don’t want or demand equal access to other peoples children.

They don’t want to be alone supervising an unrelated child young state of undress. Not because they worry they are a pedophile, but because they do see how it could leave all in that situation vulnerable and avoid it.

They cross the road and slow down if they are following a woman on a street at night, not because they are a rapist, but because they understand the woman can’t possibly know that.

Good men understand the power imbalance between themselves and women and dc. They understand that though they are good, they unfortunately belong to a sex class responsible for the vast vast majority of sexual abuse. And so they do all they can to protect those around them.

I wouldn't be worried about the Dad in ths scenario but about my young daughter being alone in the changing room. It wouldn't take long for anyone with risky intentions to figure out she's alone when she sees her with lone male adult. If they're communal changing rooms however and the Dad will be there to keep an eye out, I'd be fine

Anyway OP I agree with the pp who said that if your DH does not like this idea, then it's his job to come up with an alternative.

Oh and all those assuming all men could be abusers, need to remember Rose West, Myra Hindley and the one who worked in a nursery who was selling photos to a pedophile ring just for starters

In my experience good men don’t want or demand equal access to other peoples children

so...if you are a single dad your kids can never have friends over to play?

Obviously, you get to know someone before you leave your child with them, and you trust your instincts.

No offence but a completely nonsense piece of advice.

I didn’t keep my dd safe because I got a ‘vibe’ from the horrific school ground pedophile, I did it because I treated him as though he could have been one. I said no to his offers of lifts/sleepovers/to take dd to a shared dance class because of that.

The poor mums who trusted him didn’t miss a signal, their ‘instincts’ didn’t fail. That is the very nature of these fucking predators. You don’t get a off feeling, you think he’s trustworthy. He probably has a wife/children. He’s ‘proven’ himself to be trustworthy in the past. He’s attractive, successful, charming.

He’s not skulking around the playground giving off evil vibes.

Oh what tosh.

It’s clear from the op that nobody is going to be near the child in a state of undress. Any adult is in a position of power to a child make or female and the absolute vast majority of men and boys are not abusers.

Some posters have serious issues.

I think your husband’s concerns are valid. I’m not sure why the length of time you’ve known the person matters as some people get away with it their whole lives without anyone ever finding out, even those who know them well. Of course the likelihood is that it’s all perfectly innocent. But I wouldn’t take that risk, and even if I felt comfortable with it myself I still wouldn’t do it if husband wasn’t okay with it. Childhood sexual abuse is more common than you think, Google the statistics.

I’d say the posters with issues are the ones unable to differentiate between:

99% of sexual crime is committed by men

And

99% of men commit sexual crime.

The top is completely true, and scoffing about it or naming three female sex attackers doesn’t change it.

Acknowledging the first, and acting on that information, is not the same as saying the second statement.

@Tessabelle74

Oh and all those assuming all men could be abusers, need to remember Rose West, Myra Hindley and the one who worked in a nursery who was selling photos to a pedophile ring just for starters

Yes. Three women.

Who ALL worked in conjunction with men who abused the children with them. That doesn’t mean women abuse on the same level men do. They simply don’t. The whole reason female child murderers become so infamous is because it’s unusual.

To the people who can’t understand the OP’s POV, are there absolutely no males in your life that you could envisage leaving your child with? There are so many friends and family members that I would be entirely comfortable putting in this position of trust. You can’t just imagine someone creepy and then assume that’s the person OP is talking about when she’s known him and his wife for years and doesn’t have an ounce of worry about his character.

That said, changing villages are a bit grim. Presumably if it’s a lesson then it’s not a free for all? I did discover my friend and I had been perved on (probably for months) in the mixed sex ‘changing villages’ when we were 18.

@CrankyFrankie

It depends on the specific lesson. At my kids lessons one pool was a lesson pool but adults could still pay to swim in the other pools. So the lesson kids would change for their lesson but members of the public would also change before using the other pool. So yes, a free for all.

That’s what I’d be worried about more than the friend taking the kids to the pool. I think if my kids are changing where adult strangers are also changing I’d like to be there supervising.

@Alisae

Obviously, you get to know someone before you leave your child with them, and you trust your instincts.

No offence but a completely nonsense piece of advice.

I didn’t keep my dd safe because I got a ‘vibe’ from the horrific school ground pedophile, I did it because I treated him as though he could have been one. I said no to his offers of lifts/sleepovers/to take dd to a shared dance class because of that.

The poor mums who trusted him didn’t miss a signal, their ‘instincts’ didn’t fail. That is the very nature of these fucking predators. You don’t get a off feeling, you think he’s trustworthy. He probably has a wife/children. He’s ‘proven’ himself to be trustworthy in the past. He’s attractive, successful, charming.

He’s not skulking around the playground giving off evil vibes.

@Alisae

Mmm hmmm in plain sight but people aren’t ready for these conversations, and act like protecting your children from potential dangers makes us hysterical.

But I must say in OP’s case I would be wondering why DP is so worried about this if he trusts the same parent to have his daughter for play dates as she’s said. It doesn’t make any sense unless he’s worried about her being in the mixed changing room by herself, which is also understandable.