DP uncomfortable about a school run dad taking DD swimming

[Eastie77Returns]

DD (8) will be attending swimming lessons at a new venue in the New Year. There are a couple of other kids in her class who attend lessons at the same pool, I am friends with both sets of parents. I was chatting to the dad of one of the kids and he mentioned that he and and the other child’s mum take it in turns to take both children swimming each week. He asked if I’d like to join the ‘rotation’ which would mean taking all 3 kids every 3 weeks and I said I’d be happy to. We all live a few minutes walk from each other and DD knows the 2 boys well. I’d already discussed this with the other mum so she is on board.

DP has announced he is uncomfortable about the arrangement as there is a male parent involved (when I originally mentioned the plan to him he thought it would only be mums). I think he is being absolutely ridiculous, I have known the school dad since our children were 2 years old and DD adores him.

However I discussed this with a friend who said she 100% understands why DP is unhappy and I need to see this from his point of view. AIBU??

I actually don’t think either you or your partner are being unreasonable. I think both are sensible and considered and valid viewpoints.

@explodingeyes

Can someone screaming NO NO NO on here explain to me how & when the dad is actually going to abuse the 9 year old girl? It's three friends and a parent walking to the baths. In public. Three children taking themselves to cubicles in an open changing room area. In public. Three children getting themselves dressed in private in a cubicle. Loads of people about and staff. Three friends walking home again. Supervised by a dad. Once every 3 weeks. It does not flag any safeguarding alarm bells. And yes OP I agree that DP seems happy to object but it's not him having the hassle of going every week when you don't need to.

Why did you feel the need to say that posters were ‘screaming NO NO NO?’

I presume it was hyperbole to try and imply the women saying they don’t like the idea are hysterical and childish.

I don’t think this man will abuse the child. He likely won’t. However, when it comes to swimming I’d rather my child was supervised by me until they’re high school age (11 ish) and would go alone. If they need taking to swimming I’d be the one to take them.

It’s not ‘screaming NO’ randomly. It’s saying I wouldn’t be comfortable with that so won’t do it. I do think the father should take his turn of the swimming run also or swim with her at the weekends if that’s not possible.

@mnp321

Iv always been the one to have the sleep overs at my house, I wouldn’t send any of my children with another parent for a lift without me, you never really know anyone and I don’t trust just anyone with my children.

But you wouldn't be having sleepovers at your house without the other parents trusting you. Is that not a little hypocritical that you expect them to trust you but won't reciprocate?

It might be hypocritical but logically this poster knows what they will do and doesn't know what the other parents might do so it makes sense.

@mnp321

Iv always been the one to have the sleep overs at my house, I wouldn’t send any of my children with another parent for a lift without me, you never really know anyone and I don’t trust just anyone with my children.

But you wouldn't be having sleepovers at your house without the other parents trusting you. Is that not a little hypocritical that you expect them to trust you but won't reciprocate?

@mnp321

I’m not going around asking people’s children to stay at my house, as you can see from this post, a lot of people don’t seem too bothered about who they leave their kids with so if one of mine gets invited I explain that I am not comfortable with them staying at people’s houses, but I am happy for them to stay at ours, I would not be offended if they said the same back, but like I said I couldn’t care less if anyone’s kids stay or not it makes no difference to me. I suppose it could be hypercritical but I’m not going to lessen my boundaries and say ok yea since you would let your child, then I will too.

And just to clarify I said it would make absolutely no difference if it’s a dad or mum, like I said in my 1st comment.

But some of these comments are giving me ‘not all men’ vibes.

@CherryAndAlmond

I wouldn't do it, personally. Most abusers are known to the child (and the parents). I only leave DD with DF, no other males.

Tbh I would feel the same .you know the parents .but how well ? Tbh most abusers are known to the child .I wdnt leave my child tbh

A penis doesn't make someone a child abuser. Children are abused by women just as much. Ask him how he'd feel being accused of being an abuser just because he has a penis.

@explodingeyes

Can someone screaming NO NO NO on here explain to me how & when the dad is actually going to abuse the 9 year old girl? It's three friends and a parent walking to the baths. In public. Three children taking themselves to cubicles in an open changing room area. In public. Three children getting themselves dressed in private in a cubicle. Loads of people about and staff. Three friends walking home again. Supervised by a dad. Once every 3 weeks. It does not flag any safeguarding alarm bells. And yes OP I agree that DP seems happy to object but it's not him having the hassle of going every week when you don't need to.

@explodingeyes

Nobody is screaming honey.

There’s more to this than it just being a man, like the dad is taking them and sitting in the cafe, who’s watching these 3 unattended children in a mixed gender changing room?

I follow a young man on Instagram that is recovering from being sexually abused by his grandad, this once happened on Xmas day in front of the whole family, there is always an opportunity, people are so naive.

There’s a news story about a swimming instructor that just got caught abusing students in the changing rooms of a swimming baths, he made and uploaded thousands of graphic child abuse images. There is always opportunities, and we can’t be too careful and it’s sad that people that are over protective are classed as hysterical.

@Kanaloa some posters are. They are saying 'absolutely not' and suggesting that the dad must be suspicious and it's a massive safeguarding risk. It's just not. They aren't looking at the actual facts of the situation. Male teachers at primary schools take classes swimming all the time too. They don't have to have a female: year 3 upwards in some schools.
(Teachers have dbs but that just means no criminal record).

@pollymere

A penis doesn't make someone a child abuser. Children are abused by women just as much. Ask him how he'd feel being accused of being an abuser just because he has a penis.

99% of sex offenders in prison are men. 99% of those caught using child sexual abuse material online are men, too. The ONS says that of the very small number of women believed to abuse, most will do so in tandem with (and usually to please) a man.

Almost all child sexual abuse is by men. That's simple statistical fact.

@Hertsgirl10 your over zealous "parenting" is bloody awful. Yours is going to be the "I've got socially anxiety" teenager and adult.

We see them all the time on MN, I can see now why and how they were raised.

if you exclude opportunity for a male person to perform unsupervised intimate care for your child, then you reduce their risks of abuse to almost nothing

OK, but what "unsupervised intimate care" do you think this man is "performing" for the OP's DD? Is it the walking to the swimming pool or the walking back that's the problem? Or sitting in the cafe?
Utterly ridiculous.

@Hertsgirl10 when is it going to happen in this scenario though?
It's individual cubicles in an open area. He's not going in with her

@pollymere

A penis doesn't make someone a child abuser. Children are abused by women just as much. Ask him how he'd feel being accused of being an abuser just because he has a penis.

Children aren’t abused by women just as much. I’m not sure why you’ve said that, I presume you don’t believe it to be true?

@Kanaloa when do you see the risk happening?

[quote Offmyfence]@Hertsgirl10 your over zealous "parenting" is bloody awful. Yours is going to be the "I've got socially anxiety" teenager and adult.

We see them all the time on MN, I can see now why and how they were raised. [/quote]
@Offmyfence

My 18 year old is driving, studying adult nursing and has been working full time since leaving school, 16 year old attending college, working part time and both perfectly fine emotionally and not anxious judging by 18 year olds busy social life but way to judge.
The other 4 might be quivering wrecks by that age, who knows but at least they won’t be recovering from any possible child abuse, can you say the same? I would be presumptuous like yourself and say that yours are left with anyone and will need to recover from their childhood.. but I won’t because I can’t judge a parent by a few comments on the internet.

[quote explodingeyes]@Kanaloa some posters are. They are saying 'absolutely not' and suggesting that the dad must be suspicious and it's a massive safeguarding risk. It's just not. They aren't looking at the actual facts of the situation. Male teachers at primary schools take classes swimming all the time too. They don't have to have a female: year 3 upwards in some schools.
(Teachers have dbs but that just means no criminal record). [/quote]
So nobody is ‘screaming NO NO NO!’

People are saying ‘I wouldn’t do that.’ So no posters are. I could just as easily dramatise the other side as screaming ‘but my SONS are men are you saying THEY ARE PAEDOS!!!! Women sexually abuse kids as much as men!!!!’

Both things that have actually been said by those who agree with op but not helpful for me to characterise that entire viewpoint with a few hyperbolised moments of idiocy.

And you don’t have to ‘look at the facts.’ There is no reason a school friend’s dad needs to take the child swimming if her father doesn’t want him to.

Same as my neighbours don’t need to let me take their child to the trampoline park. They can just say no I don’t want you to, for any reason they like.

I dread to think that when my boys grow up, people paint them in this light.

To be fair, the decent men I know (decent as far as I can know) would not ever offer to put themselves in a position where they could abuse a child. They would actively avoid it, wouldn’t moan about not having access to dc the same way as women do and definitely wouldn’t complain that it was unfair.

I assume because they also have that instinct that screams out that they don’t want unrelated men around their own dc/vulnerable parents etc.

I did often wonder about whether I was being a bit overly paranoid sometimes.

That was until that popular Dad in the playground in our dcs friendship group, the one all the other mums and teachers chatted to and trusted was unmasked. That friendly successful guy who took time out of his busy life to help around the primary school, volunteered at his wife’s guide groups, took other mums dd’s to activities along with his own, and was a pillar of the community…was last year convicted as one of the most prolific pedophiles our police had said they’d seen.

The trusting mums daughters had their images shared with his friends and some had been abused for years, along with his own daughter.

And no, I’m not saying it was the mums fault their daughters were abused. It was no one’s fault but that disgusting man’s. But I’ve never been more thankful that my own warped childhood has left me more paranoid than most, it saved my dd.

[quote explodingeyes]@Hertsgirl10 when is it going to happen in this scenario though?
It's individual cubicles in an open area. He's not going in with her[/quote]
@explodingeyes

Who knows? Do you know the lay out of the place? I don’t and I’m not saying he would do anything, I’m saying personally for my children it would be a no. I would never judge another parents choices or boundaries.
I just would rather take my kid myself, I mean the mum knew when she signed her up she had to get there and back and it turned out the other parents are going and made a deal, she would be taking her anyway if she didn’t hear about the carpool so it’s not like the child wouldn’t go if it wasn’t for it?

It wouldn’t make any difference to me if it was another mum or dad, I would just rather go myself.

I realise in this case the man says he would not be going in.

A) Who would know if he did? ‘Oh, she’s forgotten this, I’ll take it to her’.

B) Assuming he is a good man, would a child that age know what to do (or even notice) if another man in the changing room was angling a camera above or below the adjoining cubicle door?

@Hertsgirl10 I still stand by your parenting style is massively over zealous!

I find it amazing you say don't judge parents by a few words on the Internet but you have said

as you can see from this post, a lot of people don’t seem too bothered about who they leave their kids with

So as you have judged them, I will judge you.

I'd hazard a guess that your younger children will have "social anxiety", due to your parenting.

@BraveGoldie

I would be cautious with this, especially when the other two kids are boys. She would have to change all on her own? Or where? It just seems very young, alone, in a swim suit to be without any reliable female figure to be around.

No different to a Dad taking a daughter swimming, 8 and over have to change in female changing rooms independently.

Thank you to those of you with balanced responses that have brought some sanity to the thread!

I've taken on board the comments that I cannot simply disregard DP's feelings. Fair enough. He has misgivings that he cannot articulate beyond "it is not appropriate" but I'm not going to just ride roughshod over this feelings.

However, laying that aside, some of the attitudes and comments on here are perplexing and depressing to say the least.

I see people are still commenting on the dangers of the lift share, DD being the last one left in the car...once again the dad will not be driving. Everyone walks to the swimming pool.

I’ve been accused of being lax because I’m not supervising DD whilst she swims. She’s attending a swimming lesson so there is a teacher and a lifeguard in the pool. No supervision from parents required.

I'm reading that some of you have 9 & 10 year old children who cannot dry and dress themselves/feel uncomfortable doing so and I'm putting DD at risk because she "might need help". Help with what? I’ve never met a NT 9 year old who cannot use a a towel and put their own clothes on. KS1 Primary school aged children who attend PE and swimming lessons have to do this on their own as teachers cannot help 30+ children.

As I've already pointed out, DD has been to his house for play dates over the last 8 years. On occasion in the last couple of years we have left her there (birthday parties, playing after school with his son and other kids) which would have given him ample opportunity to practice evil deeds. Instead, many of you think it is entirely feasible that he is going to wait until he takes DD swimming every 3 weeks, find some pretext to go into the changing village and engineer his way into her locked cubicle and then attempt to abuse her with other children close by.

Alternatively I've also read that he might try to abuse her on the walk home from the swimming pool whilst the other children walk on ahead. I can't even fathom what kind of scenario that would involve

I'm aware many paedophiles brazenly abuse children in plain sight and I'm not trying to make light of the very real and serious issue of child sexual abuse but some of the comments on this thread are ridiculous. I'm not even going to comment on the "I've never left my DD with a man apart from DH" except to say that level of mistrust sounds exhausting and stressful.

[quote Offmyfence]@Hertsgirl10 I still stand by your parenting style is massively over zealous!

I find it amazing you say don't judge parents by a few words on the Internet but you have said

as you can see from this post, a lot of people don’t seem too bothered about who they leave their kids with

So as you have judged them, I will judge you.

I'd hazard a guess that your younger children will have "social anxiety", due to your parenting. [/quote]
@Offmyfence

Why would my older ones be ok but not the younger ones?

That’s not a judgement, going by what people have said on here it’s a fact, isn’t it?
So many have said they don’t see any issue and would allow their children to go with someone to swimming.

You can hazard a guess all you like but my parenting style hasn’t changed since I had the older ones and the 15 year old is outgoing, 11 year old would probably jump in a van that said free Pokémon cards on the side.

And considering the lockdowns and so many children that actually do have social anxiety I think you’re throwing that around a bit too casually actually, it’s a very big issue for so many adults and children and just because you don’t agree with someone doesn’t mean you can use that mental health issue to try and belittle someone’s parenting on MN, many posters here will be suffering with social anxiety as will their children will be and it’s not such a flippant issue to accuse people, I mean protecting your own children shouldn’t be something to mug someone off about and say ‘parenting’ as if what I am doing is an issue.

DP needs to meet the people involved and make an assessment then. Not all abusers are male. He is making a risk assessment without adequate data