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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

DP uncomfortable about a school run dad taking DD swimming

661 replies

Eastie77Returns · 18/12/2021 19:08

DD (8) will be attending swimming lessons at a new venue in the New Year. There are a couple of other kids in her class who attend lessons at the same pool, I am friends with both sets of parents. I was chatting to the dad of one of the kids and he mentioned that he and and the other child’s mum take it in turns to take both children swimming each week. He asked if I’d like to join the ‘rotation’ which would mean taking all 3 kids every 3 weeks and I said I’d be happy to. We all live a few minutes walk from each other and DD knows the 2 boys well. I’d already discussed this with the other mum so she is on board.

DP has announced he is uncomfortable about the arrangement as there is a male parent involved (when I originally mentioned the plan to him he thought it would only be mums). I think he is being absolutely ridiculous, I have known the school dad since our children were 2 years old and DD adores him.

However I discussed this with a friend who said she 100% understands why DP is unhappy and I need to see this from his point of view. AIBU??

OP posts:
Untang13d · 19/12/2021 18:15

Wouldn’t the age of the children mean they’d be in year 4- KS2! Reception kids have to get changed after swimming by themselves when they go with school.

Kanaloa · 19/12/2021 18:18

@CheeseMmmm

Kanoaka yes we are agreeing, would be really weird not to go in wait outside cubicle while changing, imo and IME
Oh ok! I was just confused. Yes, I do obviously let them have their independence and privacy when changing but agree with 8 year olds I would rather be in the vicinity than in the cafe. Or just at home.

I did go swimming alone at that age myself but looking back there were loads of moments I could have used an adult there. Even just in the case of people trying to talk to you that you don’t feel comfortable with etc. In mixed spaces like changing rooms kids are vulnerable.

Hertsgirl10 · 19/12/2021 18:19

I have to agree with DP and not because it is a man.

Iv always been the one to have the sleep overs at my house, I wouldn’t send any of my children with another parent for a lift without me, you never really know anyone and I don’t trust just anyone with my children.

It might be paranoid or OTT but I would rather be that than save face and something happen, we only get one chance to keep them safe and if being OTT makes sure that they’re safe and no chance of danger then so be it.

I totally understand what others are saying but for my children, it would never be an option I would rather volunteer to do it every week personally.

howmanyways · 19/12/2021 18:19

I can’t believe the level of paranoia on here.
Abusers come in female form too - you only have had to look at the recent horrific stories in the news to understand that.

perfectstorm · 19/12/2021 18:19

99% of sex offenders are male. The reason the news reports women offenders is because that's so exceptionally rare it is newsworthy.

And before someone tries to argue that men just get caught more: that statistic holds when you look at online child abuse imagery offending, where the police don't know who is responsible for streaming it until they knock at the door. 99% of those offenders are male, too. So for every woman doing this crap, you will have more than 99 men. Women are very low risk. Men are not.

No, women are not always innocent. But there are barely over 100 women sex offenders in prison at any given time, and over 13500 men. The chances a woman will do this to your child are not zero, but they're a damn sight closer to it.

Obviously the vast majority of men are not sex offenders, but it's not a tiny number, either. Estimates range between 5 and 20% which means between 1 in 20 and 1 in 5. And we know that at least 7.5% of the population will experience child sexual abuse - and most of the victims will be girls. That means that 1 in 15 kids are abused. 2 in every standard-sized state school primary classroom.

Most child sexual abuse happens at the hands of trusted men in the child and family's lives. We have lovely male friends involved in our kids's lives, but not one of them will be taking our kids swimming alone when they're little. Why expose your child to a completely avoidable risk in that way? Just get a parent to go along, too.

Admittedly both mine are disabled, so they're very vulnerable, but the simple reality is that if you exclude opportunity for a male person to perform unsupervised intimate care for your child, then you reduce their risks of abuse to almost nothing.

Lots of posters reading this and thinking it's paranoid will have a child who is, or will be, abused. That's the statistical reality. Of course my kids would probably be perfectly safe, cared for by the men we know, but it's not like it's a lightning strike level risk, either. It's really pretty common. And the safeguarding against that abuse is so simple - don't allow your child to be in situations of vulnerability when that's easy to avoid - that I struggle to understand the mindset that says this thinking is paranoid.

I've never been in a car crash in my life, and nor have my kids. But I still got them excellent car seats. Meningitis is exceptionally rare. Yet we still vaccinate. I see safeguarding them against the far more likely scenario of abuse as along the same sorts of lines.

But I mean, if other people think trying to reduce a risk of 1 in 15 that your child will be sexually abused is paranoid, then that's absolutely their prerogative.

Kanaloa · 19/12/2021 18:19

@Untang13d

Wouldn’t the age of the children mean they’d be in year 4- KS2! Reception kids have to get changed after swimming by themselves when they go with school.
Firstly I don’t know any schools that take reception aged children swimming.

Secondly, when my kids have gone swimming with school they are not changing in a public space but a closed off one with only other members of the school, with the teachers supervising/nearby.

howmanyways · 19/12/2021 18:22

Hertsgirl - you must live in a state of constant anxiety. Exhausting.

Doveyouknow · 19/12/2021 18:22

I don't see the issue, if she is capable of getting changed on her own. Essentially he is just walking her to the pool. It's less risky than a playdate. I am also surprised that people are concerned about a nearly 9 year old getting changed unsupervised. Our local pool allows kids to go swimming on their own from 9. And as it has single sex changing rooms it common for kids over 8 to change on their own.

marcopront · 19/12/2021 18:22

@Hertsgirl10

Iv always been the one to have the sleep overs at my house, I wouldn’t send any of my children with another parent for a lift without me, you never really know anyone and I don’t trust just anyone with my children.

So you don't trust anyone but expect them to trust you.

Kanaloa · 19/12/2021 18:23

@saraclara

Sometimes I wonder if many of the respondents on here have children at all. The number of people who think that a near nine year old needs dressing by an adult is REALLY worrying.
Who has said that a nine year old needs dressing by an adult? I’ve said specifically that I wouldn’t dress a child that age, but would still prefer to be nearby while my child dresses themselves in a public space. For many reasons.

People are trying to reduce it to ‘what, your nine year old can’t put their own clothes on?’ To make the point sound ridiculous. When in fact none of us are dressing our nine year olds. Just supervising them in a public space.

howmanyways · 19/12/2021 18:26

Obviously the vast majority of men are not sex offenders, but it's not a tiny number, either. Estimates range between 5 and 20% which means between 1 in 20 and 1 in 5.

Perfect storm - in which case - how can you trust your partner with your children? (Assuming your partner is male)

notanatural2018 · 19/12/2021 18:27

I wouldn't be comfortable with it either, and to be honest it should be you're either both comfortable, or it doesn't happen.

LostForIdeas · 19/12/2021 18:29

DP cannot take her as the lesson clashes with work. He says he has no problem with the dad (“a nice guy”) but thinks it is inappropriate for DD to go alone with a male parent.

I’d ask him what HE is going to do about the swimming.
Yes he has the right to say he is uncomfortable. He has the right to take the decisions that he thinks are better for his dd.
However, he has no right to take decision that will impact others (Aka you) wo sorting out the issue.

The dad not taking dd swimming means you, the OP, will have to take her swimming every week. It’s YOUR inconvenience as you don’t see the issue (and have as much right as he is to make that sort of decision).
Convient it he is also nit the ine who then has to go to the pool every week.
So I’d be asking him what is his solution? If you end up going to the swimming pool every week, is he going to lighten your load in a different way? Or is he just expecting you to suck it up??

Hertsgirl10 · 19/12/2021 18:30

@howmanyways

Hertsgirl - you must live in a state of constant anxiety. Exhausting.
@howmanyways

Not anxious at all, just don’t put my children in any unnecessary dangers that they don’t need to be in, if people are happy to chance things with their kids that’s up to them. I’m not.

LostForIdeas · 19/12/2021 18:31

Admittedly both mine are disabled, so they're very vulnerable, but the simple reality is that if you exclude opportunity for a male person to perform unsupervised intimate care for your child, then you reduce their risks of abuse to almost nothing.

That’s totally true.

But we are talking about a 9yo who probably has already gone swimming with her school and has no need at all of ‘unsupervised intimate care’. She will get ready before swimming in her own, in her cubicle. She will get changed in her own in her cubicle too.
Surrounded by other families getting changed too.

I don’t think it’s in any way comparable

Hertsgirl10 · 19/12/2021 18:36

[quote marcopront]@Hertsgirl10

Iv always been the one to have the sleep overs at my house, I wouldn’t send any of my children with another parent for a lift without me, you never really know anyone and I don’t trust just anyone with my children.

So you don't trust anyone but expect them to trust you.[/quote]
@marcopront

I don’t expect anyone to trust me at all, I set my boundaries for my children and suggest they can stay at our house, I don’t say that they should trust me or that they have to, makes no difference if they want their kids to stay at mine, I have 6 kids so if someone says no it’s no skin off my nose. And wouldn’t be offended if they said no either.

People are so casual with their kids though and want a night off so nobody ever says no, maybe that shows I am too paranoid but again I can say that none of my children are going to come to me with a story about another kids family member that something happened in the past.

Don’t know why people find protecting their own children so shocking tbh. If it doesn’t work for you then fine, but sending mine off to stay at people’s houses doesn’t work for me and that’s fine too.

If you’ve ever lived in a woman’s refuse you might feel the same, I learnt a long time ago that them places are filled up with majority of woman that found out their children have been sexually abused by very close family members/friends.
Now if you you can’t trust family and friends then why would you trust a kid from schools family?

perfectstorm · 19/12/2021 18:36

@howmanyways

Obviously the vast majority of men are not sex offenders, but it's not a tiny number, either. Estimates range between 5 and 20% which means between 1 in 20 and 1 in 5.

Perfect storm - in which case - how can you trust your partner with your children? (Assuming your partner is male)

Statistically, biological fathers are very low risk. Stepfathers and unrelated males are the main risk element.

Really, you can't know. But I gut level do trust him, and the children are relaxed, happy and confident in his care. And it's back to the risk versus gain, isn't it? You can shield kids from all risks by never allowing them in a car, or to school, or on a climbing frame... but that wouldn't be healthy. The risks are nothing compared to the benefits. But when it comes to allowing a strange man to take your child swimming, for convenience.. where is the gain, worth the risk?

It's not paranoid to apply common sense safeguarding. If a school wouldn't let someone do something - and a school wouldn't let a random man do this in a million years, not unless they want Special Measures - then nor will I.

Oblomov21 · 19/12/2021 18:37

I can't believe the responses. Of course this is not an issue. Of course he should take your dd.

Notmrsfitz · 19/12/2021 18:37

I don’t see his point really at all, what if her teacher was male?
If you had a son would he object to another Mum taking him swimming?

I think dad should try it and see how it goes.

mnp321 · 19/12/2021 18:38

@Oblomov21

I can't believe the responses. Of course this is not an issue. Of course he should take your dd.
I agree. For me, given the circumstances, it's a total non issue.
KatyRebecca84 · 19/12/2021 18:39

FFS most men aren’t paedophiles!

Poetnojo · 19/12/2021 18:42

A lot of the people here that are saying they would have no issue with this are probably some of the same people who would shout down someone for saying not all men Confused

mnp321 · 19/12/2021 18:42

Iv always been the one to have the sleep overs at my house, I wouldn’t send any of my children with another parent for a lift without me, you never really know anyone and I don’t trust just anyone with my children.

But you wouldn't be having sleepovers at your house without the other parents trusting you. Is that not a little hypocritical that you expect them to trust you but won't reciprocate?

MrsDisney · 19/12/2021 18:43

Wondering if all those who wouldn’t allow this to happen, would do so if the child was male with the male adult? Or male child with female adult? I dread to think that when my boys grow up, people paint them in this light.
To me, if it is a mixed changing village, the girl can go into her own cubicle, same as the boys can, and get changed, if Mam is happy and comfortable with the male parent and her daughter is happy and comfortable with him too.
I get that we have to be conscious of the untoward, and I am the first to hold me hands up and say I find it difficult to trust people with my children, but like others have said, would people feel the same if it was the girl’s male relative? I think if your partner feels uncomfortable, then he should offer the guy some male company on his turn

explodingeyes · 19/12/2021 18:43

Can someone screaming NO NO NO on here explain to me how & when the dad is actually going to abuse the 9 year old girl?
It's three friends and a parent walking to the baths. In public.
Three children taking themselves to cubicles in an open changing room area. In public.
Three children getting themselves dressed in private in a cubicle.
Loads of people about and staff.
Three friends walking home again. Supervised by a dad.
Once every 3 weeks.
It does not flag any safeguarding alarm bells.
And yes OP I agree that DP seems happy to object but it's not him having the hassle of going every week when you don't need to.

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