To think DH is selfish denying the DC Christmas?

[ohganggang]

Been together 7 years, married for 5. We have a 4 year old DD, a 2 year old DS and I'm pregnant with out 3rd. DH was raised as a Jehovah's Witness, they do not celebrate Christmas as they believe it is satanic. The religion has a shunning policy and DH got shunned by his family and friends when it came out he was in a relationship with a non-JW (me) at the start of our relationship as that is forbidden. He is essentially dead to his mum, dad and siblings.

DH had stopped believing in the religion long before I came on the scene and was just keeping up pretenses for his family until he got found out. He is now as atheist as they come. He has a lot of religious trauma from his childhood, from growing up believing the world was about to end, watching the kids at his school celebrating Christmas and 'knowing' they were going to be killed in Armageddon for it (they teach that God will kill literally everybody who isn't a JW, no exceptions), being taught that the world is run by Satan etc etc. He lived his childhood in perpetual fear. I have advised him to seek counselling and he won't.

He now rejects anything to do with religion, and can't be doing with Christmas. He actually gets depressed every year around the Christmas season and says it's because it brings up the trauma of his childhood. Because of this, we've never bothered with Christmas together. For the first couple of years of the relationship before living together, marriage and DC I'd just go to my family on Christmas Day as usual. Christmas 2017 after DD was born, we stayed home and did nothing and it was the first year I didn't do anything for Christmas. Me and DH had a conversation that year and he said he doesn't want to do Christmas with our kids as it will trigger his trauma and remind him of the childhood joy he missed out on. He also wants the kids to be completely atheist and have nothing to do with religion. I accepted that.

But DD is now 4, and in pre-school, and the pre-school is making a huge deal out of Christmas coming up soon. I find this problematic because obviously it causes issues for families like mine but we're in a small town with not much cultural diversity so I think they've assumed all of the kids will be celebrating at home. They absolutely haven't considered some families might not be celebrating Christmas and I've debated raising a complaint, but that's another thread. Naturally, the talk of a Christmas nativity, the kids being hyped up about an upcoming Christmas 'party' and general encouragement for the kids to talk about Christmas among themselves, has resulted in DD getting excited for Christmas.

I have told DH today that I don't think it's fair on the kids and that I don't think it's right to project his trauma on to the kids. To me it seems like a case of "I didn't get to have Christmas so why should my kids?". I do understand his trauma though. I tried to compromise saying we don't have to decorate the house but I am doing presents for the kids and me and the kids will go to my parents on the day to celebrate and he can stay at home. He says no, that he isn't comfortable with his kids having "that religious bullshit in their lives". I'm really annoyed with him.

OP show him this thread. He does need therapy, which will take time. For this Xmas I think you either take them to your family to celebrate Christmas or suggest you celebrate being a family with having a nice time - a happy day with all the tree and decs, by giving your children presents, showing love and having fun making your traditions. Tell him he can’t change the past but his future can have the fun he missed. Explore whether he would like you to get him something he really wanted for Xmas or a bday as a child but couldn’t have? It won’t solve anything but the idea may just help him to focus on getting some therapy- ultimately his problem is not the material things your DCs want, it’s how his family made him feel. Ask him how having the power to make your DCs feel as miserable as he was is helpful to him or your DCs. Surely using his influence as a parent to nurture and help your DCs to flourish must be more rewarding for all as well as the right thing to do.

Good parents put significant effort into NOT inflicting their childhood traumas onto their dc. He knows this is what he’s doing - not letting them have any joy he couldn’t have he said he doesn't want to do Christmas with our kids as it will trigger his trauma and remind him of the childhood joy he missed out on. this would be non negotiable for me. I’d spend most of the day at my parents so he didn’t have to be there, but he could a)deal with it, b) get therapy so he can deal with it c) leave

Also, all of this "christmas isn't really religious" bollocks that's getting spouted in this thread is awful, it's right there is the name christmas as in christianity.
some people may chose not to acknowledge the religious elements or talk about how centuries ago christians mimicked pagan traditions (in order to further their religous imperialism!) but it absolutely is a religiously based celebration and it's offensive to act as if people with other faiths are being unreasonable not to go against their beliefs just because some people feel like the christian dominance of this country is more important respecting other religions.

@nosyupnorth many Jewish, Hindu and Muslim people in the UK still have a tree/decorations/family meal.
My Muslim friend always sends me a Christmas card and a eid card. She always has a tree as well and her family has a meal together.
There are many people who still have elements of it from different religions as in the UK the number of people who do it for a regions aspect is pretty low these days!

OK so there are 2 sides to this, his and you and the children in a democratic society the ayes have it. He sounds cruel and selfish it is not all about him can you compromise and just have Christmas day without the build up. Surely he can give up one day for his Childrens happiness otherwise LTB he sounds totally absorbed in his world

How about going abroad for Christmas jn the future? i've always found it much less christmassy ..

JW's are anti-birthday as well but he's okay with birthday's for himself and the DC and if anything goes over the top. He always treats himself to a nice birthday cake of his choice etc.

But anything remotely to do with religion he just rejects.

Oh I will add as well that he is the same with Easter but we do still get the DC chocolate treats just nothing bunny or egg shaped.

Who made him your owner and master? Use your voice, parent your kids how you want, he doesn’t get to not deal with his trauma and inflict it on all of you, that’s not an option that’s available to him. Tell him to organise therapy for himself.

@ohganggang

I think inside he is still that little boy who watched his classmates talking about Christmas with complete and utter terror thinking they were going to be murdered by God for it any day.

He won't get it dealt with.

Then you have to make a decision.

Who comes first?
The adult who refuses to face up to his issues
Or your children?

The fact that he is ever so slightly more tolerant of Easter (allowing us to treat the DC to chocolate as long as it isn't Easter labelled) even though he cannot be doing with Christmas at all further cements my belief that a tiny part of him fears that all the JW propaganda actually is true. JW's do celebrate Easter in a certain form though don't call it that but are completely anti-Christmas.

He will never, ever admit to this though.

I'm Sikh and asian. My DP is white and Athiest. But we are both British.
We are worlds apart in upbringing however there is nothing more quintessentially British than celebrating Christmas. Its just culturally ingrained is us all.
I love the nativity, I love carols and hymns, presents, cards, trees, decor. The works. DP loves it all too. We don't necessarily believe or dispute the whole nativity story, it's not something we ever pay any serious attention to, we just enjoy it for what it is.
In my opinion, Christmas is not religious, it's actually the most wonderfully inclusive,regardless of religion, magical time of year especially for children.

Please dont deprive your children of the best time of year especially in this current fucking joke of a climate with Covid.
Kids need this more than ever!

He is becoming exhausting now, to be honest. I've broken my back trying to be patient with him and carry his traumas for him.

@nosyupnorth

Also, all of this "christmas isn't really religious" bollocks that's getting spouted in this thread is awful, it's right there is the name christmas as in christianity. some people may chose not to acknowledge the religious elements or talk about how centuries ago christians mimicked pagan traditions (in order to further their religous imperialism!) but it absolutely is a religiously based celebration and it's offensive to act as if people with other faiths are being unreasonable not to go against their beliefs just because some people feel like the christian dominance of this country is more important respecting other religions.

You are absolutely within your rights to celebrate it as a Christian event.

I am absolutely within mine to celebrate it as nothing to do with Christianity.

My dh has awful memories of his childhood christmases, his dad being a devout atheist but trying to make them all go along with his German traditions including candles on the tree that terrified dh, with his mum, a devout Christian and living very close to her extended family making a huge deal out of it all.

When we first started going out we were at my parents house when they showed our annual silly Christmas video - my sister has always been amazing at that sort of thing - and he ended up in the bathroom in tears. His Christmas was awful, mine was brilliant, and always has been, even after my mum left and it was just our dad and the 3 of us (we always refused to go to our mothers house on Christmas Day, we had real loyalty to dad).

We had a lot of talks about Christmas when we were getting married, and through his pain about it all we set on our way of doing it, meal on Christmas Eve (which he'd liked) but presents on Christmas morning and a meal at our own house, inviting all the "waifs and strays" we could find, often other staff at the hospital he worked in who couldn't get back home for Christmas. One year we had 4 nursing students from Holland that I'd never met!

Now we've been married 27 years and Christmas is focused round our grown up children and MIL who always comes. It has our traditions - advent wreath, Christmas Eve meal, strangers invited in, lots of fancy cheese ..... our dc feel at home here, and our guests join in.

Your husband is being cruel and heartless. My dh could have gone that way, he wanted to be alone and not celebrate, but we worked through that and made it our own. We are practising christians and on Sunday I'm preaching at our church carol service. My dd2 won't come, she doesn't believe. But on Christmas Eve she'll sit with as as we light the last candle and talk about all we're thankful for in the year past. We all make allowances for each other.

I hope you can talk some sense into your husband, and get some Christmas magic back for your children x

I think it's actually a case of subconsciously not being able to bear seeing them having Christmas and being happy when he didn't.

This is quite disturbing really. Poor kids, they are the age when its all magical, please dont let him pass on his issues to them.

What do your parents think about having not given their grandkids any Christmas presents ever? So much joy has been lost.

Sorry, I'm not saying Christmas isn't religious, more so that the celebration of it isn't necessarily a religious one for those who are not Christian.

So, he's willing to deprive his children to soothe himself. Lovely man. Remind him that Father Christmas/Santa is not a specifically Christain thing unless you turn it into one, but it is a lovely bit of make-believe that children adore. Ask him if he really wants to make his own children feel as left out as he did, or if he can be a man and take pleasure in their joy.

He’s being a cunt. He of all people should know what it’s like to miss out on the joy of Christmas as a child and yet he wants to force his own children to miss out like he did? He wants them to go through the same trauma?
Go have Christmas at your parents with your dcs. He can mope around by himself.
He needs to get himself to therapy.

He obsesses I think. He spends hours and hours on his laptop on online ew-JW forums where they share articles on the religion's website to each other and rip it all to shreds, or compare their traumas.

That fucking cult still has such a massive hold on him.

And I have lots of Muslim and Jewish friends who - even if they don't celebrate Christmas - celebrate Hanukah and Passover and Eid.

I don't know any families who celebrate nothing. It's about shared experiences and being part of community celebrations.

You're equal parents. You want to celebrate Christmas - he doesn't. Why does he get to call the shots?

He doesn't need to get involved if he doesn't want to but that's no reason for you to do the same.