To think DH is selfish denying the DC Christmas?

[ohganggang]

Been together 7 years, married for 5. We have a 4 year old DD, a 2 year old DS and I'm pregnant with out 3rd. DH was raised as a Jehovah's Witness, they do not celebrate Christmas as they believe it is satanic. The religion has a shunning policy and DH got shunned by his family and friends when it came out he was in a relationship with a non-JW (me) at the start of our relationship as that is forbidden. He is essentially dead to his mum, dad and siblings.

DH had stopped believing in the religion long before I came on the scene and was just keeping up pretenses for his family until he got found out. He is now as atheist as they come. He has a lot of religious trauma from his childhood, from growing up believing the world was about to end, watching the kids at his school celebrating Christmas and 'knowing' they were going to be killed in Armageddon for it (they teach that God will kill literally everybody who isn't a JW, no exceptions), being taught that the world is run by Satan etc etc. He lived his childhood in perpetual fear. I have advised him to seek counselling and he won't.

He now rejects anything to do with religion, and can't be doing with Christmas. He actually gets depressed every year around the Christmas season and says it's because it brings up the trauma of his childhood. Because of this, we've never bothered with Christmas together. For the first couple of years of the relationship before living together, marriage and DC I'd just go to my family on Christmas Day as usual. Christmas 2017 after DD was born, we stayed home and did nothing and it was the first year I didn't do anything for Christmas. Me and DH had a conversation that year and he said he doesn't want to do Christmas with our kids as it will trigger his trauma and remind him of the childhood joy he missed out on. He also wants the kids to be completely atheist and have nothing to do with religion. I accepted that.

But DD is now 4, and in pre-school, and the pre-school is making a huge deal out of Christmas coming up soon. I find this problematic because obviously it causes issues for families like mine but we're in a small town with not much cultural diversity so I think they've assumed all of the kids will be celebrating at home. They absolutely haven't considered some families might not be celebrating Christmas and I've debated raising a complaint, but that's another thread. Naturally, the talk of a Christmas nativity, the kids being hyped up about an upcoming Christmas 'party' and general encouragement for the kids to talk about Christmas among themselves, has resulted in DD getting excited for Christmas.

I have told DH today that I don't think it's fair on the kids and that I don't think it's right to project his trauma on to the kids. To me it seems like a case of "I didn't get to have Christmas so why should my kids?". I do understand his trauma though. I tried to compromise saying we don't have to decorate the house but I am doing presents for the kids and me and the kids will go to my parents on the day to celebrate and he can stay at home. He says no, that he isn't comfortable with his kids having "that religious bullshit in their lives". I'm really annoyed with him.

You knew his background when you got with him. If he had remained a Jehovah’s Witness he still wouldn’t have wanted to celebrate Christmas. Do what you feel is right for you and your children, if he doesn’t like it he can sit it out.

I have some experience of ex-cult members and the trauma and mental disturbance some suffer from is huge. He needs to get specialist counselling - not just about Christmas. Losing your family like this is terrible, plus losing all the 'values' you were raised with.
But in the meantime I do think he should accept that Christmas will give his children happiness and good memories and protect them against some of what he suffers now.

During a bad weather event when he was 7 she thought it was Armageddon happening and made him pack all his bags to 'flee to safety' until God came and saved them and he believed it all at the time and was terrified, he has never forgotten it.

She used to tell him he was upsetting Jehovah by making friends and talking to the other kids at school so he stopped.

Most JWs don't do this, do they? JW may have issues but this isn't just about him being ex-JW, this more is about him having a mother with serious personality and mental health issues who traumatised her child instead of protecting him. And him being severely fucked up by it. He's projecting it all into religion but religion didn't make his mother that way.

I know this is the typical, cliche thing to say but in every other sense he is an absolutely wonderful husband and dad.

It's a very big thing to have wrong with him though, especially if it's getting worse and he wont deal with it. And if you think it was worth complaining to the nursery because they did what nearly every other nursery does then he's started to affect your sense of reality and normality too.

I hate that he is damaged like this and probably was in denial and thought marriage and kids would fix him.

You can't fix him. He has to face up to the damage he carries and try to fix himself. If not, that leaves the rest of you in trouble.

For all he goes on about how it's just because he wants the kids to be completely atheist

That is not his decision to make, controlling. It may be fear that makes him controlling but it's still a problem.

He won't get it dealt with.

So where does that leave you? At least you are going to need very firm boundaries to protect the kids, and if he is getting worse and wont do anything then your boundaries may not be enough in the long run.

Your husband needs to be in therapy OP. Carrying that trauma with him and then letting it affect his own children’s childhood isn’t fair.

Most JWs if they are all in DO do that.

The current instruction is have a bag ready to run in the house. You are constantly taught the world will turn on you and the persecution will come. There’s apparently videos now of dramas being locked in basements hiding and the army kicking the doors in.

And it will all be solved by god executing everyone who isn’t a JW so don’t get too attached to those classmates.

@Aquamarine1029

Your husband is doing the same thing his parents did, does he not realise this? He is weaonising religion, even as a now atheist.

This. And the cruel one.

LTB

Christmas isnt about religion for most people, it's about the man with the sack and eating too much......he's being ridiculously selfish. And so are you for prioritisng his needs in all honesty.
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If that was my house the tree and lights would be up and sulky McSulkerton would be spending the week somewhere else to get over himself if he couldnt cope with his kids having what he didn't have.

In fact go out today and buy a damn tree a, box of decorations and some lights. Start as you mean to go on.

Our Christmas is not and never has been about religion. The Christians hijacked a pagan festival anyway.
We have a tree, stockings, presents and everything and at school the DC have been in Nativity plays but that’s just a nice story as far as we are concerned, nothing more.
You can have the magic without the religion and your H is being really unfair on your children and you

And you might need to discuss your DC's Christmas or lack of Christmas with the nursery, not as a "complaint" but as a fact that you all need to deal with, and try to come up with a strategy together.

They may be shocked but if they are that wont just be a small town mentality. Most families who don't celebrate but live in a society that does, will come to terms and agree some compromise for their children's wellbeing. It's not the "doesn't celebrate Christmas" that's the problem, it's the intolerance and emotional distress that your husband is bringing to his children's Christmastime.

@AmaryllisNightAndDay Most JWs will petrify their children thinking that the end of days is any moment. Although we weren't told to pack a bag, but to remain calm and Jehovah will save us whilst everyone else is in a burning wasteland being eaten alive by vultures.

The primary purpose of non-JW friends is to convert them, they're satanists and doing gods work. I remember at about 6 trying to convert a random lady in a cafe. They sent small children to the doors because they thought people would be less likely to turn us away and then they can know 'the truth'. If parents don't feel you can convert them, there is no point in the friendship, they'll soon be eaten by vultures anyway, don't get too close. JWs will never get close to a non-JW, and would very much like to enlighten them with 'the truth'. The only ones I know who had real non JW friends, stopped being a JW.

Most JWs if they are all in DO do that.

Oh dear, so serious cult territory then. But he's not able to make the distinction between "ordinary" religion and this?

I'm an ex jw, I can relate. However when my kids arrived, I made sure we celebrated. He is feeling guilt, and being selfish. You have to for your children. Otherwise you're allowing him to repeat history for your children. Do you want them to grow up saying that their parents never celebrated Christmas?

He shouldn't be letting it affect his children, but poor man, Christmas is all about families getting together, and even though his family were harsh, it must be a terrible trauma to be shunned by your family. I can understand why Christmas is triggering for him. I would have whatever kind of Christmas you want for your children and he has the choice to join in or isolate himself, in a hotel if necessary.

I struggled with emotional issues at Christmas after my divorce, but my second husband had been alone at Christmas for years, and trying to make Christmas lovely for him, made a huge difference to my mental state.

We’re agnostic in our house and still celebrate Christmas. For us its about friends, family, food, presents and having a fantastic time. It’s not aa religious event for us.

Your DH is being unreasonable. Even taking into account his awful childhood.

@AmaryllisNightAndDay that’s why he needs help; your way of thinking and behaving is severely impacted from being raised with these beliefs. I’m 45 and still working through it.

[quote CookSproutsInSoySauce]@AmaryllisNightAndDay Most JWs will petrify their children thinking that the end of days is any moment. Although we weren't told to pack a bag, but to remain calm and Jehovah will save us whilst everyone else is in a burning wasteland being eaten alive by vultures.

The primary purpose of non-JW friends is to convert them, they're satanists and doing gods work. I remember at about 6 trying to convert a random lady in a cafe. They sent small children to the doors because they thought people would be less likely to turn us away and then they can know 'the truth'. If parents don't feel you can convert them, there is no point in the friendship, they'll soon be eaten by vultures anyway, don't get too close. JWs will never get close to a non-JW, and would very much like to enlighten them with 'the truth'. The only ones I know who had real non JW friends, stopped being a JW.[/quote]
Meant to say the reason I tried to convert her was because she seemed nice, gave me the biscuit that came with her coffee and I didn't want her to be eaten alive by vultures.

I agree with @MobyDicksTinyCanoe.
Start now.
Are you financially free of him?
Buy a tree and lights and presents and wrapping paper. He can go elsewhere if he cant cope.
Then buy all thd christmas food and drink.

Hes not a good husband and father if he FORBIDS this. He has NO right to forbid you anything.
Your making excuses like the victims of abusers do. (He's often so nice ).

The extreme sexism of a strongly male led society is coming through from him too.

allRJnomore1 So sorry to hear you have been through that, and wishing you strength and peace.

thought marriage and kids would fix him.

I thought this was only ever said in jest.

I find it strange that he is willing to celebrate birthdays but not Christmas, it definitely screams of still being the little boy watching others enjoy Christmas. It’s jealousy, he doesn’t want to go through watching other children enjoy Christmas again. It’s incredibly sad that he’s been left with that trauma but its incredibly selfish and I don’t think that I could be with someone who puts his own trauma onto my children.

If he can’t deal with Christmas himself then he needs to compromise, step back and agree to you and the children spending Christmas with your family.

What kind of relationship does he envisage having with your children when they are older and they understand why they didn’t celebrate Christmas?

Op distant cousins of mine are devout JWs and it has completely damaged all of their now grown children, if your DH won't get help to move past his upbringing which is in itself a huge undertaking, then l fear your lives together will be dominated by this.

Much worse is your childrens childhoods will be very damaged as every child whether from a religious background, or a completely atheist home want to join in with Christmas.

Christmas is the most magical time of the whole year for small children, (and l am wondering what your 4 yr old has been allowed to experience)HE is being both childish and selfish not addressing this.
Please consider carefully what life you want for your Dcs.

Thank you @AmaryllisNightAndDay that’s kind of you, I’m doing pretty well really. Currently shitting myself because my mother has said she will drop stuff off (won’t see anyone due to Covid so will text and leave on the step) and the Christmas tree is up in the window.

So it does still get you!

Do you want them to grow up saying that their parents never celebrated Christmas?

Mine didn't but we had other celebrations (Not JW as you can tell from my lack of knowledge) OP your children have two parents, you are from a Christmas-celebrating family and that is part of your children's heritage as well as your own. The children shouldn't be bent out of shape to suit your DH's traumas.

Tell him to fuck off.

Yeah, no. It's unworkable. He's just as strict as his parents now. You've got a JW husband who refuses to let your entirely blameless kids celebrate Christmas, which is just perpetuating the cycle once more.

He is what he is and he won't change. He's too damaged and refuses to seek help for it.