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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To hate working with women

434 replies

HousethatChunkbuilt · 14/12/2021 18:27

I am a feminist and I think women are incredible. I am proud at all we achieve, having babies, periods, going through the menopause, the constant harassment, fear of violence, discrimination, sexism... the list goes on.
HOWEVER I find it incredibly difficult to work in all female teams. I have nearly always worked in all female environments in entry level jobs.
The bitchiness is unreal. Everyday comments lead to tears, meltdowns, refusal to come in. This has happened in every single workplace. The only place I haven't had this is in a shop where it was mostly men and other (quite mature) women. Oh and one place where we were all different nationalities, is cattiness a British thing?
It just takes so much time and effort navigating the various rifts, arguments, feuds and rivalries. I honestly think we'd rule the world if we could get rid of this shit.
I'm quite matter of fact and get frustrated that this taking up so much time!

OP posts:
Gwenhwyfar · 14/12/2021 20:51

@PurpleDaisies

This has happened in every single workplace.

What do those workplaces have in common?

OP explained what they have in common. As another poster pointed out it's the environment in some jobs/workplaces. I know you're trying to say it's OP, but that would be victim blaming.
areallthenamesusedup · 14/12/2021 20:52

@youboozeyoulose

Late to the thread, so apologies if someone has already made this point.

But what annoys me about this sort of observation is, often you find people don't even notice or remark on the fact they work in an all male team, or any problems they have in an all male team, because working in a male dominated environment is seen as "normal".

Female dominated teams are seen as a novelty and as such any problems are not blamed on individual personalities but womankind as a whole.

For what it's worth I work in a majority female team, one of the best teams I've ever worked in but even if it wasn't I wouldn't pin that on them being women. People of both genders can be arseholes!

this!
Gwenhwyfar · 14/12/2021 20:53

@DDMAC

It’s not a British thing. I worked with all women and one male manager in NY. It was the most awful atmosphere I have ever experienced. Two women in particular used to roar at each other across the office, manager would hide in his office and not come out til it was over. Another mostly female office was the same, terrible bitchiness. Back in Ireland, a main hospital I was in, again bloody terrible, mean bunch, I stuck it out for a year. All medical environments I don’t know if that has any significance.
I've worked with bitchy people in other countries. Definitely not just a British thing or a women thing either. It happens in certain types of workplaces where there is a bad atmosphere.
SpongeBobJudgeyPants · 14/12/2021 20:54

I think you maybe need to consider being self-employed OP.You do sound a little combative in your responses here. Maybe because, I dunno, you have gone on a mainly womens forum, and attacked women? Hmm I worked in a male dominated environment for many many years. Think forces, or similar. The vitriol these men extended to the few women there, and even to each other, was beyond belief. And yes, I've worked other places since. So it's not a women, thing, I suggest it's maybe a people thing, as you suggested when you attempted to backpedal. Hmm

User135644 · 14/12/2021 20:56

Women can be bitchy and bullying to someone who does not fit in with the crowd, just like school bullying

Jo Meara, Danielle Lloyd and Jade Goody syndrome.

Gwenhwyfar · 14/12/2021 20:57

"My experience of working with women is it's generally fine at lower and middle management levels, but women right at the very top are awful, 9 times out of 10. It's as if they feel like they have to model stereotypical male behaviours to get there - they have no empathy, they push people under buses, they're aggressive... I could go on."

You've never talked to your colleagues who are not management? It's right at the bottom that you get a lot of nastiness and competition as well. They may be jobs where promotion isn't possible, but avoiding the really awful tasks can become important as can watching your back so someone else doesn't get given your tasks.

scarpa · 14/12/2021 20:58

The only place I ever worked like this was a tourist attraction when I was 17, employing mainly other 17 year olds.

Otherwise I've always found predominantly-women teams to be amazing (or at least no different to mixed teams). Until the last year, the majority of the workforce who worked full time/in the office at my business were women and I loved working with a huge group of women who loved and supported each other and became very good friends outside of work (we've added a few - wonderful - men into the mix now and it's also lovely!).

Maybe you've just been very, very unlucky...

LadyJJ · 14/12/2021 20:59

Also work in professional female dominated role, have never experienced this.
However DP who works in construction for agencies (where its almost all men) witnesses bullying behaviour to different people, constant drama of the "he said this about x" variety and general dick swinging nonsense.
What job is this op?

Psychonabike · 14/12/2021 21:01

I prefer working with women, and for most of my career have worked with 80% women (though the people who are in my specific role are mainly men).

I think there is a thing about the socialisation of women, development of gossip as social currency etc that leads to poor boundaries and chatter than can feel catty (for want of a better word) and unhelpful. But in my own experience that's usually a small number of women among many and I've never really found myself drawn into it...I don't really do small talk.

But the men. Sheesh. Everywhere I've worked the men, no matter how pleasant, how left wing, just chronically and systematically commit small acts of sexism every day. Mansplaining, talking over, rephrasing my contribution like it's their own idea, dismissing my contributions at one meeting only to raise it themselves at the next, arranging meetings at 5pm and systematically excluding the (mostly) women who need to leave to collect kids etc etc etc etc...every single day. Once you start to notice it just never stops.

I'd take working with women over men any day.

Rosebel · 14/12/2021 21:01

Where ii work it's 50:50 more or less with men and women. There is some bitching etc but it's not just the women who behave like this.

User135644 · 14/12/2021 21:03

@Outdoorbeanbags

Isn’t it just people though? Most people are nice, some people are more difficult, some people have stuff going on/are unhappy, some people clash but still have to spend hours of the day together, some people feel threatened/challenged by another person. It’s just human nature. The times I’ve seen teams go wrong is often when they are mismanaged, stressed/approaching burnout or there’s a toxic individual/situation between a couple of people that others get drawn in to. At my work the furlough/key worker childcare situation unsettled a normally happy bunch. But we have a moan, forgive and move on. Like any other group of humans where problems crop up.
A team that is well managed (whether by men or women) will usually have a good working atmosphere.

Issues among staff - and a bad working atmosphere - are more typically a result of bad management.

hangrylady · 14/12/2021 21:06

I've not experienced this myself. I've only ever hated working with one woman but that's because she was a complete dickhead, nothing to do with her gender

BabyDreamsz · 14/12/2021 21:06

19:39HousethatChunkbuilt

What I've noticed is that the higher up you get the more you have to watch out for the male colleagues - they will steal your ideas, gossip about you and want your job.

Women gossiping is different, usually it's someone jealous of someone's looks, weight etc.

BabyDreamsz · 14/12/2021 21:08

20:57User135644

I remember how they treated Shilpa Shetty - their problem with her was obvious!

Gwenhwyfar · 14/12/2021 21:09

"A team that is well managed (whether by men or women) will usually have a good working atmosphere.

Issues among staff - and a bad working atmosphere - are more typically a result of bad management."

Yes, this. I think the kind of job matters as well though. Mega boring jobs that are quite 'safe' sort of breed this kind of bitterness.

MabelsApron · 14/12/2021 21:10

To borrow a MN phrase, you don’t have a woman problem you have a culture problem.

I get where you’re coming from. I work in a department that’s heavily female-dominated and a hierarchy has emerged where parents are considered more valuable than non-parents. This no doubt started as a feminist campaign but has now become something that’s very difficult to work within as a childless woman. Not just the always getting the shitty end of the sticks in terms of shifts and holidays but the comments that are directed our way all the time are just soul-destroying. HR about as much use as a chocolate teapot and the managers are all female parents so not much is going to change.

But that’s not a “woman thing”. It’s a structure and a culture that’s internalised so deep that it’ll take time to undo it. It’s been allowed to persist when it shouldn’t have but it’s not intrinsically because the people in charge have particular chromosomes that it’s like this. It wouldn’t put me off working in a female-dominated environment as I recognise that it’s anomaly and not the norm.

So on balance YABU, yes.

Cherryana · 14/12/2021 21:11

On my current team, one of my colleagues mentioned the lack of competitiveness between the women. For me this was normal. For her, it was clearly something to remark on.

guerrillagirl · 14/12/2021 21:13

@Psychonabike

I prefer working with women, and for most of my career have worked with 80% women (though the people who are in my specific role are mainly men).

I think there is a thing about the socialisation of women, development of gossip as social currency etc that leads to poor boundaries and chatter than can feel catty (for want of a better word) and unhelpful. But in my own experience that's usually a small number of women among many and I've never really found myself drawn into it...I don't really do small talk.

But the men. Sheesh. Everywhere I've worked the men, no matter how pleasant, how left wing, just chronically and systematically commit small acts of sexism every day. Mansplaining, talking over, rephrasing my contribution like it's their own idea, dismissing my contributions at one meeting only to raise it themselves at the next, arranging meetings at 5pm and systematically excluding the (mostly) women who need to leave to collect kids etc etc etc etc...every single day. Once you start to notice it just never stops.

I'd take working with women over men any day.

This! So true - the only job I ever hated was dominated by men in management roles - the sexism at play was horrendous. I’ve always preferred having a woman boss. IME they just treat people with more respect
Couchbettato · 14/12/2021 21:13

No doesn't happen in my work place. Every one is so supportive it's nice to finally have a place where you're lifted up by everyone instead of put down.

Longwayfromhome21 · 14/12/2021 21:14

I run a business and I prefer to only work with female staff and clients, I find women much more straightforward, reasonable, collaborative and supportive. With many men there is an element of showing off and wanting to dominate, which I cannot abide.

gettingolderbutcooler · 14/12/2021 21:16

Funny that. I've never found an inordinate amount of 'bitchiness' as you call it in any of the permanent or temp teams I've been in.
Hmmmm...

MrsLarry · 14/12/2021 21:17

Are you by any chance one of those women who "gets on better with men"?

Tee20x · 14/12/2021 21:18

I love my mostly female team.

Lollyneenah · 14/12/2021 21:18

My work team is 14 women aside from 3 chaps. Theres no bitchiness. Youngest is 24 and oldest late 60s and we're all a massive support to one another. It could be that we work in a ridiculously stressful role, where people are at their worst I suppose?
It wouldn't work if we didn't have each others backs Smile
What industry do you work in OP?

Moonwatcher1234 · 14/12/2021 21:19

Generally I prefer working with women…I find it more collegiate and we form friendships in a way that men don’t. I’m a lawyer so work with fellow lawyers and whilst you may expect the women to be forthright and bracing, actually I’ve always found the more women dominated teams to be supportive. Men are competitive and can lack emotional intelligence - I find that they are usually competing with each other and taking credit for other people’s work without shame.