To say that the expression 'no one ever looked back and wishes they'd worked more' is not true?

[Loosemoosegoose]

This is something you read on Mumsnet a lot. I can't help but think it's not often true. When taken literally, perhaps, but it tends to be used in the context of finding a fulfilling career versus prioritising family. I have been blessed with both a wonderful DD and a very fulfilling career and honestly, I need both in my life. I subscribe very much to the idea that there is absolutely no reason a woman can't have it all, she just can't necessarily always have it all at exactly the same time and there are times when taking time to focus on family or career is what is needed but generally, there are also times when you can give both all you've got and balance the two beautifully.
Of course there are some who do not want one or the other (or either) but I feel that a woman's career can often be dismissed by phrases like this because it minimises the value many people do place on their life's work. I want to be able to look back on my life and feel that I did give my career my all because I work in a field I am incredibly passionate about and if I didn't do all I could to continue in this profession and do my best in it, I know that I would look back and feel regret.

Interested in others views. Do you think it is possible to place as much value on your career as you place on being a parent and still be a good and present parent or do you think it is something you look back on and realise you sacrificed one for the other no matter how you try to balance it?

I think it depends, when you are studying to get into a university that could change your life direction, it is not true.

Maybe if you start your own business it is not true.

But if you are grinding along in some middle level position for a company or the public sector, it is true.

Yes totally agree op. I'm in the exact same position as you and eternally grateful that it's not either or. I can have my career and my family. Both really important to me and both worthy of my time and energy.

@RachelTheRedNosedReindeer

You might be right. I don't really have the luxury of thinking about whether the stress bad for me because I have to do it. But if you are supporting a whole family stress goes with the territory. And I'd much rather do a highly paid, interesting stressful job than a low paid and boring stressful job.

Right now I wished I had worked more so I would have private medical care rather having to fight for treatment for stage 3 breast cancer in the NHS. I would love just to be able to talk to a doctor. Or have treatment start or a plan. If it goes to stage 4 due to delays, 4 months for GP to refer, no screening as under 50, a month in and being told will be a further 2 months before treatment then its incurable.

Funny that this has come up now. We had a Facetime drinks last night with friends that had moved down South for his job. He is very very senior in a health care related role and absolutely loves his job. Works very long hours for that reason. And to be fair the aim of his job is pretty important.

They have 2 DC. One has just left Uni and will be living a distance away, and the other has just started. Suddenly he has realised that he has missed out on so much of their childhoods and was talking about his regrets. Staying at work till 7 to finish things off when he could instead have been home for family dinner and finished off the next day. Things like that.

We were also discussing another of the dads who was a partner in a big professional firm. He had spent years working 'on site' at the other end of the country or abroad on major projects. Home only briefly at weekends. He had a brain tumour pre age 50 and can no longer work at all. His DC were late teens at the time. Now that he is at home all the time he has realised that he has no relationship with his DC at all. He was so rarely around.

I think these are the people that the phrase is aimed at. The ones that really have missed out on their families for the sake of work.

Oh, and the one that can't work anymore was replaced within a month. Work really didn't care.

not only do I not think that its only aimed at women, i also think that the alternative to work is not always parenthood or even family.

How old are you OP? Have you been faced with a near death experience? Or the loss of a loved one before their time? Because I think that can hugely impact your feelings on the matter.

I know two people who have recently died of cancer at the ages of 37 and 42. It has made me value the important things much more and work is not one of them.

I have also never known a single woman who regretted going from full time work to part time work.

Really, you haven't seen any threads just on MN where women regret throwing away their interesting careers in favour of low-skilled, low paid boring but school hours job, so they can also have time to do all the chores around their house? Must be a different MN than I'm using.

As it is usually aimed at workaholics then YABU as it is true in that instance.

I only work to earn enough money to pay my bills, couldn't care less about having a career, and my real life begins the minute I walk out the door at work so it is extremely true in my case.

What always gets me is that it's always presented as a straight choice, when the reality is that it would have knock on effects elsewhere.

Would my kids be happier if I picked up from school 5 days a week instead of 2 and was there every day in the holidays? Maybe, if they had the same life we have now. But when I was part time we had no money, we were crammed into a little flat and couldn't afford all the activities and sports and stuff we do now. I'd be there in the holidays but we wouldn't have as much to do. Most importantly, when we all lived on top of each other with no personal space, things were less chilled and less harmonious and life was more stressful. We're happier now, and it's not because I'm fulfilled at work, it's because there is less stress hanging over us.

Your OP suggests you’re naive about the challenges facing working mothers.

Agree that on MN some posters encourage PT/ SAH, but many others (me for example) point out the risks of that, and the economic and other benefits of FT paid work.

A PP mentioned early retirement. Don’t think many people now younger than their 60s can afford not to do a paid job in their 50s/early 60s. For example, many pensions pay little.

Paid, full time work is simply a necessity for most people, for many, many years of our lives. Working very long hours is something different.

To everyone saying I've got the saying wrong or you never see this used at women or in this forum or in that context, there's literally a thread in 'Work' with exactly the scenario I've described now. The OP is trying to decide where to further her career or have another baby and this exact phrase is there. This is what triggered my post because in my experience, this is what I see time and time again on Mumsnet. Just because you haven't seen it used in the same context as I have doesn't mean it doesn't get used in that way... You'd need to have read every thread ever on Mumsnet to be so certain that it doesn't so how about for the sake of an interesting discussion, you just go with what I'm actually asking rather than trying to disprove my post is even worth discussing because you personally have no experience of it in that context.

My point is more aimed at the idea that people assume a career is not worth giving your all to. And there are also plenty of posts on this thread that prove that exact point by saying actively why would anyone want to prioritise work over family because they simply have no concept at all that someone could genuinely be fulfilled by their career and that a career can be more than simply a means to an ends. I'm not saying these posters are wrong, I'm genuinely interested in others views and whilst I might not agree with those views, it interesting to gain others perspectives. It's far more annoying reading the amount of replies simply aimed at telling me my OP is pointless because I'm clearly wrong or lying about the context this phrase is used; how is that contributing to a discussion in an interesting way?

@Loosemoosegoose, it depends on your priorities, both my dh and I have degrees, post grads. We both work now in areas connected to our educations. However when our kids were very small they were with us all the time, we really believed that this is so important to have this time with them, we also dont have family support and would never leave a non verbal child with strangers , I personally dislike nurseries for under 2s. That was our choice and we very much have no regrets.

I don’t see this phrase as meaning a person shouldn’t have a fulfilling career. More that the career shouldn’t be primarily your sole focus and that family life, hobbies, travel etc should also be emphasised.

Each to their own but it's possible to do both although we had less money initially, we are making it now. For us that time waa absolutely priceless and we'll never get it back.

How old are your children OP?
I think when kids are young it’s easy to think you can do everything- because childcare is reasonably easy if you have the money, and neurotypical children/ physically healthy children are fun and easy when they are young.
Once the same children are teenagers, even though they’re still great to be around, you may wish you’d spent more time around them just keeping an eye that they are doing ok.
Once you have children - it’s no longer about you having it all. You need to give too.

It is not naive to speak about your own experiences. I know very well the struggles that many people face simply trying to make ends meat; that's very much a part of what I do in my work. I know I am incredibly lucky to have a supportive partner that makes it possible for me to work as I do but I'm also not so well off that I don't have the luxury of not working either. I'm the main breadwinner; not working or working part time is not an option for me. I'm just fortunate enough that the job I have to do to provide a roof over our heads is a job I love to do. That doesn't make me naive, it makes me lucky. I'm not at all saying that you have to give your career everything you've got, I'm not saying it's not about choice or what makes you happy. What I'm saying is that theres a lot of assumptions, especially on Mumsnet about what makes someone happy and there are far too many people ready to dismiss someone's fulfilment from their job because they personally don't share that experience. It's happening here. I am naive or too young to have the opinion I have apparently. Or I mean what I say in that for some people (not all or even most), a career is just as fulfilling as being a parent.

@InternetAnonymityCanHelp this is so true, so much more to juggle and so many school days off, holidays, closures to cover constantly!

How old are your dcs @Loosemoosegoose?

@Loosemoosegoose

And there are also plenty of posts on this thread that prove that exact point by saying actively why would anyone want to prioritise work over family because they simply have no concept at all that someone could genuinely be fulfilled by their career and that a career can be more than simply a means to an ends

I totally agree with you and you see this everywhere (including on this thread) - someone pitched up earlier to say it was very unreasonable to be at work when you could be with your family. As if everyone has a choice.

There are still a lot of people who think in this really binary way that as a woman you are either focused on your lovely children or you are some horrible harridan who would rather be looking at dreaded spreadsheets.

And yes some of this discussion is about workaholics and burnout but it is gendered. No one would tell a FT working man who was supporting a family of three or four kids he was being "very unreasonable" going to work. They might say he needed to find a better "work/life balance". But he would never be fundamentally criticized for the fact that he was in work.

@LittleDandelionClock

YABVU. How can ANYone wish they had worked more? Instead of spending time with their family/children?

If I heard anyone say that, I would wonder why they had children, if they preferred to be at work, rather than with their children.

Surely this applies also to any other activity - why did you have children if you prefer to see friends, go to the gym, volunteer, go out to dinner with DH, go shopping, read a book etc - instead of spending it with your children?

I do like my children, but I still don't want to spend 100% of my time solely with them. They would also be quite disappointed if I cancelled all their activities and meet-ups with friends because how can they prefer anything else to spending time with their mum.

OP, I agree with you. There was a fascinating thread a couple of years back where the OP asked women in their 60s what advice they'd give to their 30 or 40yo self. A significant number of them said they would tell themselves to stick with the career or go for that promotion.

I appreciate it's not possible for everyone, but I refuse to feel shame for wanting a rewarding and successful career. In fact, I'm glad I did, as DH had an injury four years ago that has left him unable to work. He's net eligible for any benefits, so without my income, we'd be in a very difficult position.

Well if I gave my career “my all” then I absolutely would not have much left for my family.

But I’m sure I’ve read somewhere about the top ten regrets of the dying and this has come up. So while it may not apply to you OP, it applies to a lot of people, men and women.

Used to be said to me quite a lot when I worked a job with very very long hours. I left when I had a baby. If I had stayed I would have been quite rich but would have rarely seen my family. Sod that!

The saying is pretty spot on actually- I have been at numerous death beds too.

What's the point in me telling you my DD's age. If I tell you she's 6 weeks old does that make me a terrible parent? If I tell you she's 17 years old does that make me a good parent? I'm not asking for opinions on my life choices, I'm asking for opinions on my post that it is entirely possible to have a career that you are fulfilled by just as much as you are fulfilled by parenting. That's all.