Wanting to tell 44 weeks and breech friend she's risking her baby?

[scottishlass43]

My friend is 44 weeks pregnant with a footling breech. She's determined to have a natural birth at home with another friend of ours who's a midwife. She's been declining all intervention till now and has no cut off point - she wants to let the baby come naturally and doesn't want scans or any monitoring. She refuses to consider a c-section.

She's older (late thirties) and has been waiting for several years for this baby. I have no idea why she'd risk it now.

AIBU wanting to tell her what I think? Am I (and other worried friends) overreacting? Does anyone know of anyone who's done this, and how it went?

[quote Scrunchies]@scottishlass43 if she’s not been scanned since 20 weeks how do they know for sure it’s a footling breech?[/quote]
My thoughts exactly

I was induced at 42 weeks with Dd and she has learning disabilities. I can't help wondering if going two weeks over caused her issues as I now know the placenta starts deteriorating when you go overdue. If I had my time again l would insist on being induced earlier.

OP, is she one of those women who is obsessed with everything being "natural"?

Tell her that maternal and infant death are EXTREMELY natural. As is Covid.

There's a candidate for a Darwin award....

@Justheretoaskaquestion91

Is she sure that the baby is still alive if she’s refusing scans etc? I’m not being goady it would be a serious concern!

I was wondering this, and the fact she's not had a scan since week 20 is concerning. I hope that's not the case, but it's a possibility.

28 years ago aged 19, I went tremendously overdue at 44 weeks and 4 days (the hospital had a big enquiry as to how it had happened) It was eventually recognised and I was induced, during the induction I developed pre eclampsia and after failed suction and forceps I was rushed to theatre for an emergency section.
My little boy was beyond blue and had stopped breathing he scored 0 on his apgar and then after rescus he scored 2 - he was in scbu, he was termed a cerebral baby with potential brain damage and his dad was told it was unlikely he’d survive the next 12 hours.

Thankfully and almost miraculously he survived, with NO ill effects and is now a lawyer working abroad.

We were beyond lucky and I think as a friend I’d have to say to my friend that she needs some intervention xxx

[quote scottishlass43]@shouldistop I agree completely!

She says she's read an article online that shows the placenta doesn't degrade and can keep going indefinitely and has done research into it.

@Branleuse not scanned since the 20 week scan I think

I'm at a loss about how the midwives are still supporting it. She told me was planning to freebirth if they wouldn't support her though, and told them as much. So I guess they're just trying to prevent that.

[/quote]
How do they know it’s a footling breech?

How does she know the baby is footling breech without a scan?

@SchadenfreudePersonified no, a footling breech is feet first so even more risky as it doesn’t take much in terms of dilatation of the cervix for the presenting part to come through, it has a much higher risk of head entrapment. As there isn’t a firm head or bum on the cervix it is much less likely to dilate to full dilatation.

Snap with others 🙄 about how the baby is positioned

I hope that it turns out well for her.
Surely she knows the risks, but yeah I’d say something and risk losing a friend. I don’t think it be able to say nothing in that situation.

I myself was induced at 42 weeks. I don’t really understand why people are so against being induced, but many people feel very strongly about it.

I’ve had a stillbirth (at 35 weeks) and it’s the worst thing that’s happened to me.
Your friend is risking her baby’s life and, indeed, an atomic bomb going off in her own if she doesn’t wise up to the situation.
I think I would personally be compelled to say something, then if the word happens you know in your heart of hearts that you tried.

Worst not word

If she hasn’t been scanned since 20 weeks how is anyone positive the baby is footling breech ?

I had a healthy pregnancy and natural birth, and if I hadn't given birth in hospital I'd be without my child as he was rushed to ICU seconds after he was born. There were no warning signs during labour and it's extremely rare something like that happens but I will always be thankful I didn't have a home birth and will never ever advocate one. On the off chance something goes wrong, and it can, you want to have the best people around you to take over and give you and your child the best shot at life otherwise you (she) will have to live with the consequences. Take it from a mum who knows!

You don’t need necessarily to be scanned at that stage to know whether the baby is footling breech frank breach though transverse might be trickier

At 39 weeks I went for an induction and answer. The midwife went to examine me and promptly told me she knew my baby was breech and not head down. Half an hour later a scan showed she was spot on

Either your friend is being economical with the truth and inventing stuff or she and this so called midwife are bat shit.

I too would walk away from the friendship.

I wouldn't do this - if the worst happens, God forbid, she'll need a friend - but I'd tell her what a massive unnecessary risk this is, for no benefit, and I couldn't support it. And accept that she might walk away in offence.

Went for an induction and sweep

Suppose what I’m saying is an experienced midwife knows what they’re “feeling for”

I’m nit sure the MW is supporting it as such.
She, on a personal level, might well be against it. But she can’t force the mother to have a CS. So her choices are to either stay with the mum and support the best she can or walk away and as you said, know that mum will be in her own to give birth.

I can see why the MW has chosen to stay.

@AnyFucker

If she hasn’t been scanned since 20 weeks how is anyone positive the baby is footling breech ?

How did they used to know before scans were a thing? By feeling at the bump and locating the head and bum etc.

@Tubs11 I also had a beautiful birth with my son but then haemorrhaged after delivery placenta, rushed to theatre and put to sleep, I don't know why people risk it then want sympathy when it all goes wrong

According to AIMS:
Currently, women are being led to believe that there is a high chance that their baby will die if they continue with their pregnancy beyond 42 weeks. However, even those studies which appear to show a protective effect of induction before 42 weeks make it clear that the risks of continuing pregnancy beyond this point are extremely low; and the evidence presented in this article does not shows that women who are making the decision to continue their pregnancy beyond 42 weeks are encountering increased risk of stillbirth. It also shows that the rate of perinatal mortality is lowest at 42+ weeks.

The NHS is about ticking boxes and avoiding getting sued. They don't listen to when women conceived (I had to go by my LMP despite having 40 day cycles and charting my temperatures). I got an independent midwife in the end and it was worlds away from the 'care' I'd had from the NHS. I would always recommend people do their own research rather than just trusting the NHS.

www.aims.org.uk/journal/item/induction-at-term

Tell her you love her and are concerned for her and her long awaited baby. That you hope it all goes well and then ultimately back off. You won’t change her mind. She’s being foolish now and I wonder if she feels she can’t back down.