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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Wanting to tell 44 weeks and breech friend she's risking her baby?

738 replies

scottishlass43 · 12/12/2021 11:16

My friend is 44 weeks pregnant with a footling breech. She's determined to have a natural birth at home with another friend of ours who's a midwife. She's been declining all intervention till now and has no cut off point - she wants to let the baby come naturally and doesn't want scans or any monitoring. She refuses to consider a c-section.

She's older (late thirties) and has been waiting for several years for this baby. I have no idea why she'd risk it now.

AIBU wanting to tell her what I think? Am I (and other worried friends) overreacting? Does anyone know of anyone who's done this, and how it went?

OP posts:
itsgettingwierd · 12/12/2021 21:50

I really hope she's led you to believe it 44 weeks but in fact she's less.

I have heard of woman who date themselves 4 weeks ahead (so announce 12 weeks but scan 1 was actually at 16 weeks) to avoid that last few weeks of people asking if it's born yet!

But I guess it's lucky those I know or those people I know who have done this have always been born on time.

I can't imagine thinking someone is 44 weeks and being calm about it.

A friend of mine was 42+3 when her dd was born though and she had to beg at 42 weeks to be induced.

PrivateHall · 12/12/2021 21:54

[quote scottishlass43]@LostForIdeas I believe this is how they know, yes. She's also been having sweeps from the midwife and the feet have been felt.

I wish I were making this up. Wouldn't that be much better.

@SlashBeef I'll update. So worried. We've expressed concern but not outright mentioned still birth etc as you're an asshole if you mention sb to pregnant women.[/quote]
Midwives won't be sweeping her with a footling breech, nope. Something is definitely amiss here........

isitbedtimeplease · 12/12/2021 21:55

I would suggest this is creeping into safeguarding. Perhaps call local childrens services.

siestasiesta · 12/12/2021 21:55

@Teaandcakeordeath83 Did you have emergency c-sections with the first two? They can be traumatic (depending on circumstances) compared with elective c-sections. Were you worried about the scar rupturing in labour? It's quite a risk. That's a big part of why I had an ELCS after an EMCS.

Christabellaxx · 12/12/2021 21:58

Hi
Your friends story is making me anxious. This is a link to an NBC news story of a lady who wanted to ‘free birth’ . Sadly the baby was SB but what is interesting is how she describes how she was seduced into wanting a free birth - by people who painted the medical profession as ‘the enemy’.
I hope your friend has a happy outcome .

Bin85 · 12/12/2021 21:59

I hope she sees sense , this is so risky.
I have a sibling with cerebral palsy as a result of lack of oxygen at birth.I do not know the full circumstances but I do know the devastating effects on the whole family .
Please do all you can.

FooFooFloofyFoof · 12/12/2021 22:00

I'm another midwife who feels a bit sick with nerves reading this. Although I work in another healthcare field now, I was a community midwife for 20 years before I changed direction. We legally had to attend home births even if against advice, but would make a plan for two midwives from the start and an ambulance waiting outside once in active labour. We would also have a supervisor of midwives in attendance (when they still existed!) who would have visited with us antenatally to make sure the client was fully aware of the risks.

She must have had a recent scan for it to be confirmed that it's footling breech. No one could tell that simply by palpating her abdomen.

Hopefully the friend is not telling the full story of the midwife's arrangements otherwise it sounds really risky if the midwife is going to manage it on her own!

PrivateHall · 12/12/2021 22:06

@Lacedwithgrace

Unfortunately, as others have said, it seems she's in too deep with this. After she has the baby no matter what the outcome is, SS will likely get involved, even if it's just her there to need help.

The midwife friend should be stepping in, and really the mother's GP/midwife/ any healthcare professional involved in her care should too.

Fingers crossed they're both okay and get help soon

Of course people will be 'stepping in', but ultimately it is her choice. No one can force her into hospital against her will. This is her body and her baby and she chooses what happens. The healthcare professionals will however be losing a LOT of sleep over her, the stress she will be causing them is immeasurable. They will no doubt get the blame if this all goes wrong even though their hands are tied.
nocoolnamesleft · 12/12/2021 22:07

She's an idiot. She is, of course, allowed to be an idiot. The baby is not yet a legal entity, so it is her body. But going to 40 weeks with a footling breech is like playing Russian roulette with stillbirth.

Duckrace · 12/12/2021 22:09

Isn't it common for a footling Breech to be delayed because there is no pressure from a head on the cervix? I was told that with mine.

shouldistop · 12/12/2021 22:12

@Duckrace

Isn't it common for a footling Breech to be delayed because there is no pressure from a head on the cervix? I was told that with mine.
I believe so. Both of mine were back to back and didn't engage before Labour, 9 and 8 days late and I think it was due to their position.
SwimmingOnEggshells · 12/12/2021 22:19

Very disturbing.

Juggins2 · 12/12/2021 22:40

Free birthing is so dangerous.
www.mamamia.com.au/freebirthing-her-baby-died-yet-freebirthers-still-want-you-to-try-it/

Home birth of footling breech with a friend midwife also sounds incredibly dangerous

You could suggest she gives birth in hospital with her midwife friend present simply so she's in a place with neonatal resuscitation. Even if she doesn't allow any medical intervention before birth

cherrytopcake · 12/12/2021 22:41

Your friend sounds mentally unwell. Poor baby.

SmellyOldOwls · 12/12/2021 22:43

[quote scottishnames]All the 'freebirthers' need to read their history. The talk so much rot! It was never easy - as previous poster said, nature does not care for the individual, only the species as a whole. My DH said that as a teenager he first discovered this while walking in the Scottish hills; he came across the decaying body of a beautiful mother deer who had died giving birth, with the dead fawn stuck half in half out.

The stats of maternal and child death around birth in past centuries are well known. But there is also evidence - perhaps less publicised - showing how scared many women were to find themselves pregnant; most women pre 1700 would have know one or more of their local community who died in childbirth or after a miscarriage. No one thought of childbirth as a pleasant or empowering experience; many anticipated horrible pain as "God's punishment for sins".

The following is just one example of many. Very sorry for the massive URL, but just scroll down and read a few pages of this:
books.google.co.uk/books?id=UT8Q4gPJcOcC&pg=PA56&lpg=PA56&dq=ralph+josselin+wife+pregnancy+fears&source=bl&ots=Nd2FEU-myu&sig=ACfU3U1BZwBeg0EcQ4r9I5TlaH7GIuxLag&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj9zvinht_0AhX1mFwKHYmdDZEQ6AF6BAgLEAM#v=onepage&q=ralph%20josselin%20wife%20pregnancy%20fears&f=false

Re miscarriage:
uhra.herts.ac.uk/bitstream/handle/2299/15315/Women_Men_and_Miscarriage_submitted_version.pdf?sequence=4[/quote]
They had all sorts of amazing drugs back then too. At the very least they'd have been drinking spirits through the birth.

revea · 12/12/2021 22:50

@Duckrace that's correct. I had a frank breech so DC2 pressed on my cervix with their bottom. Footling is the most dangerous I believe.
I think at this point the chances of the baby coming naturally are very slim. This is very sad to read and I agree with pp about being blunt with your friend.
It's one thing to go slightly over 42 weeks whilst accepting daily monitoring and another to go to 44 weeks with a footling breech whilst accepting no monitoring.

stillvicarinatutu · 12/12/2021 22:50

I'd be surprised if this ends well .

Merryoldgoat · 12/12/2021 22:52

@Duckrace

I had 5 days of induction then 12 hours on the drip and just didn’t dilate as DS was too big to engage and press on my cervix.

They talked a lot about needing that firm pressure to progress labour.

Second was an unstable lie with footling presentation day prior to induction. I was told very firmly to call an ambulance if waters went in case of cord prolapse which is common with footling.

He was head down in perfect position the next day when they checked in the OT 🙄

How a 4.5kg baby turned overnight without my feeling it is beyond me.

HairyFanjoBanjo · 12/12/2021 23:01

Women in my NCT group refused to be induced into labour and insisted on a ‘natural birth, - after 42 weeks she was finally rushed into hospital as home-birth didn’t work out and she had a stillbirth.

There is an appalling ‘culture’ of woowoo birthing bullshit amongst a really wide cross-section of middle class women who are almost competing to have the most ‘natural’ birth. It’s delusional and has horrific outcomes for a minority of them.

I don’t mind a bit of woo now and again, but why on earth would you risk your unborn child’s life - it’s utterly tragic and completely unnecessary.

HairyFanjoBanjo · 12/12/2021 23:02

*woman.

Teaandcakeordeath83 · 12/12/2021 23:04

[quote siestasiesta]@Teaandcakeordeath83 Did you have emergency c-sections with the first two? They can be traumatic (depending on circumstances) compared with elective c-sections. Were you worried about the scar rupturing in labour? It's quite a risk. That's a big part of why I had an ELCS after an EMCS.[/quote]
First was "elective" for breech though I'm not such how elective something is when the other option given is "we won't be able to deliver your baby as they're breech and we don't know what to do". It was by far the worst as the spinal failed and they didn't believe me until I tried to roll off the table away from them whilst screaming at them. I still have flashbacks now and so does my husband who had to help pin my shoulders back onto the table. Second was "emergency" (though not really) for failure to progress in an induction I didn't want and was heavily coerced into. They forced me into theatre by withdrawing all other options. I ended up back in theatre 10 days later having a revision due to a massive haematoma and infection.

I can't say that I was honestly worried about my scar rupturing with my third (by far my longest pregnancy and almost 2lbs heavier than the second). I was absolutely terrified of being left to those butchers again so for me home was by far safer and less risky. In terms of risk I don't consider that it was "quite a risk". Vbacs are recommended and supported up to the fourth and the risk of rupture is pretty small- much smaller than other instances such as cord prolapse/ shoulder dystocia etc.

Teaandcakeordeath83 · 12/12/2021 23:08

[quote Glassofshloer]@Teaandcakeordeath83

Gosh. That’s quite a risk to take after 2 caesareans. Why didn’t you just find a better hospital?[/quote]
Gosh. That's quite condescending. Do you think that you care more for the outcome of my pregnancies than I do? I'm not a blithering idiot- home was categorically safer for me and my baby than any hospital.

Glassofshloer · 12/12/2021 23:10

@Teaandcakeordeath83 I didn’t mean to be condescending but home vbacs are discouraged. After 2 caesarians one would think the risk would be even higher. So how did you know it would be safer than any hospital?

lucascriesalot · 12/12/2021 23:11

@DrSbaitso Bloody Nora you lot can turn absolutely anything into a gender critical debate! Is it like a fun game for you? Pop into every thread and see how fast you can make the conversation gender critical?

Swipe left for the next trending thread