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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Wanting to tell 44 weeks and breech friend she's risking her baby?

738 replies

scottishlass43 · 12/12/2021 11:16

My friend is 44 weeks pregnant with a footling breech. She's determined to have a natural birth at home with another friend of ours who's a midwife. She's been declining all intervention till now and has no cut off point - she wants to let the baby come naturally and doesn't want scans or any monitoring. She refuses to consider a c-section.

She's older (late thirties) and has been waiting for several years for this baby. I have no idea why she'd risk it now.

AIBU wanting to tell her what I think? Am I (and other worried friends) overreacting? Does anyone know of anyone who's done this, and how it went?

OP posts:
shreddies · 12/12/2021 23:12

@Teaandcakeordeath83 I'm so sorry, that sounds utterly horrendous.

TallulahsCurse · 12/12/2021 23:13

[quote scottishlass43]@LostForIdeas I believe this is how they know, yes. She's also been having sweeps from the midwife and the feet have been felt.

I wish I were making this up. Wouldn't that be much better.

@SlashBeef I'll update. So worried. We've expressed concern but not outright mentioned still birth etc as you're an asshole if you mention sb to pregnant women.[/quote]
No. No no no.

If this is real, then as a mother of a SB baby I can tell you right now that you are NOT being an asshole. The pain that you live with for the rest of your days once you have delivered and held your dead baby is an immeasurable pain.

If this is real, then you NEED to say exactly that, so that you know you did anything you could to prevent a mother from experiencing that pain.

If she still doesn't listen well so be it, but I think you need to know that you have laid it straight...should the worst happen.

CPL593H · 12/12/2021 23:21

@TallulahsCurse Flowers

I agree, I would be totally laying it on the line with her because I would need to feel that I'd done everything I could. She is being stupid to a horrifying degree and that should not be pandered to.

jackstini · 12/12/2021 23:21

100% I would have to say something

Dd was an emcs after failed induction at 42+6. Their dates were 41+12 and they would not believe my last period was when I said (I was on a bloody plane - I could time it to the hour!)

After leaking waters showing meconium I was monitored and induced but never got past 2cm

When her heart rate showed signs of distress I was whipped into theatre and she was out in about 3 minutes, DH only just made it

She was so stained with meconium she was yellow for a week. She would have died without emcs

(Ds was elcs at 39+5!)

I cannot fathom why she is risking her baby's life this way. I hope it's not too late already Sad

sleepyhoglet · 12/12/2021 23:26

Tell her. Please talk to her and ask her to phone the hospital for advice.

Lndnmummy · 12/12/2021 23:33

Why would she do this? Every pregnant woman knows the risks. I cant believe midwives would entertain this stupidness. Why the hell would she be so stupid.

Lilyargin · 12/12/2021 23:37

My friend declined induction at 42 weeks. Then the baby stopped moving. She had to give birth knowing the baby had died. She wishes she hadn't declined the induction with all her heart.

Rinoachicken · 12/12/2021 23:39

If she’s refusing all monitoring, is there a chance the baby has already died, and perhaps she knows this as no lovely, but can’t bring herself to face up to that yet?

If she doesn’t give birth she can still tell herself it’ll all be ok and her baby will be ok. Once it’s born - she will have to face the reality and possibly the consequences of her choices - whatever that may be.

DrSbaitso · 12/12/2021 23:40

[quote lucascriesalot]@DrSbaitso Bloody Nora you lot can turn absolutely anything into a gender critical debate! Is it like a fun game for you? Pop into every thread and see how fast you can make the conversation gender critical?[/quote]

  1. Using the word "people" when you clearly mean "women" is turning it into a gender critical debate

  2. That was hours ago and I'd actually forgotten about it as the derail was brief and the thread has been focused ever since. If anyone's playing a game, it would appear to be you. Please show up in time for kickoff next time.

Rinoachicken · 12/12/2021 23:40

No movement that should say - not no lovely.

Although how much a 44wk old baby would be able to move in such ever decreasing space I don’t know

DrSbaitso · 12/12/2021 23:46

@Lndnmummy

Why would she do this? Every pregnant woman knows the risks. I cant believe midwives would entertain this stupidness. Why the hell would she be so stupid.
Some people are so seduced by the idea of the "perfect" or "natural" birth that it's crazy. I knew someone once who said that an EMCS was the worst possible outcome. No, you idiot, a dead mother and/or baby is the worst possible outcome. Thankfully it is rare these days, but only because we've got interventions that we didn't always have.

Infant and maternal death are natural. Like Covid.

WeyAyeMan · 12/12/2021 23:55

Can't actually believe that she would do this, I pray everything works out for her

TallulahsCurse · 12/12/2021 23:56

^No, you idiot, a dead mother and/or baby is the worst possible outcome. Thankfully it is rare these days, but only because we've got interventions that we didn't always have^

No it's not that rare, sadly... Once you become a member of that group no one wants to ever even knows exists, let alone be a part of, which is the stillbirth and neonatal deaths.... You realise it isn't that rare.

But for all the people I know who have lost children, I know that we would have done anything we possibly could have done to save them.

This woman needs help. Quickly.

DrSbaitso · 12/12/2021 23:59

@TallulahsCurse

^No, you idiot, a dead mother and/or baby is the worst possible outcome. Thankfully it is rare these days, but only because we've got interventions that we didn't always have^

No it's not that rare, sadly... Once you become a member of that group no one wants to ever even knows exists, let alone be a part of, which is the stillbirth and neonatal deaths.... You realise it isn't that rare.

But for all the people I know who have lost children, I know that we would have done anything we possibly could have done to save them.

This woman needs help. Quickly.

I'm sorry if that was insensitive. It wasn't my intention.

All the more reason not to take terrible and completely unnecessary risks.

TallulahsCurse · 13/12/2021 00:01

Not insensitive no, don't worry.

I only ever post on threads like this to educate, if only the tiniest amount - even if it's just to say be that person to mention SB to a pregnant woman, or to point out that sadly it is more common than people think.

DuckPancake · 13/12/2021 01:07

This is tragically selfish, all for a few hours of her's/baby's life? What about the rest of it? Poor dad too!

daretodenim · 13/12/2021 05:01

OP do you know the reason why she wants a home birth? Does she simply have a romanticised view of what birth will be and she's aiming for that (and it can be a great experience, but that's usually down to luck - not that those mothers often admit that, it's usually presented like they did something right)? Or does she have a history of medical or sexual trauma? I'm asking because her thinking is irrational to us all, but in her mind it makes sense. Knowing what her reasons are could help discuss birthing alternatives.

However, you're the poster and you are, as a friend, also going to be impacted by what happens next. There's an increasing likelihood that your friend is about to go through something traumatic. Is this something you can support her in, or do you think not (either would be completely understandable by the way!!).

If you think you simply can't be there for her if things go wrong in any way, because you'll be lacking in sympathy for someone who you feel thought it on themselves (sounds harsh but I think it would be a normal reaction), then you have little to lose by talking to her about the situation.

If you think that you can be there for her, no matter what she chooses and no matter the outcome, then your choice re the discussion is different.

At the end of the day, this is what "her body, her choice" means. It's not always comfortable and we don't always agree. But the alternative is not ok.

SuPerDoPer · 13/12/2021 05:29

It's very likely that she has been told the risks in very graphic detail by all the relevant medical professionals. I refused an induction initially as I wanted to wait a bit longer and give baby a chance to come naturally and the consultant did not hold back in telling me the risks of serious complications and still birth. They know they will risk having their practice criticised if they don't spell it out very clearly. My SIL had the same experience. Induction is a scary process - handing yourself over to increasing amounts of interventions which themselves aren't without serious risk. But the risk of not acting is also scary. It's hard to know what is best, at least initially.

I would consider that your friend has likely been given all the medical information about risks already so you wouldn't be telling her anything new. I'm concerned that a registered midwife is involved in this as she must know that the chances of a good result are seriously limited by this stage.

liveforsummer · 13/12/2021 05:51

Have you spoken to your mutual midwife friend about it? That seems the most sensible thing to do. Why is she supporting this?

oohmamama · 13/12/2021 06:01

I had a footling breech birth. The lack of pressure on my cervix prevented proper dilation and there was a very high risk of cord prolapse. I went into labour before my scheduled Csection and it was terrifying. Ended up with a hugely traumatic emergency csection with the baby’s feet in my birth canal. Footling breeches have a very, very high risk of death if birth is natural.

ShippingNews · 13/12/2021 06:14

Footling breech is one of the most dangerous presentations. The feet slide easily into the birth canal, and the head can then get stuck in the uterus, since the cervix doesn't dilate sufficiently to allow it to pass. The cord can become trapped between the skull and the cervix, leading to a still birth. I can't believe that this woman is even considering this plan. The midwife is asking to be prosecuted for malpractice if she is going along with it.

Fridafever · 13/12/2021 06:19

How do you/ she know it’s footling breech if she’s not having scans?

Justheretoaskaquestion91 · 13/12/2021 07:04

My 3am reading (non sleeping toddler) unearthed a fucking irresponsible article in the Guardian of all places essentially supporting free birth! Wtf

aurynne · 13/12/2021 07:05

Midwife here.

"She wants to let the baby come naturally" --> I would remind her that the birth of a dead baby and death of a mother due to sepsis is a very normal birth in her specific circumstances. I hate it when people equate "natural" with "lovely and beautiful". In nature, newborn babies are eaten alive shortly after birth by predators. Mothers die of infections. A broken limb results in pain and suffering for days, if you're not torn to pieces by predators before you heal. THAT is nature. Nature won't give a shit if her baby lives or dies.

She is being utterly stupid and blindsided by her wish for a "natural birth".

In the country I practice I would not have any obligation to give her care. If she contacted me in labour, I would call an ambulance to pick her up and take her to hospital. I would have stopped offering her care long before she got to 44 weeks on personal principle. There is no way I would put my career and my mental health at risk in such an extremely risky environment, by a woman who would also probably refuse any monitoring during labour. And I don't know any other midwife, no mater how "natural", that would.

Fetchthevet · 13/12/2021 07:19

I can't believe any mother would do this. Poor baby.

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