Wanting to tell 44 weeks and breech friend she's risking her baby?

[scottishlass43]

My friend is 44 weeks pregnant with a footling breech. She's determined to have a natural birth at home with another friend of ours who's a midwife. She's been declining all intervention till now and has no cut off point - she wants to let the baby come naturally and doesn't want scans or any monitoring. She refuses to consider a c-section.

She's older (late thirties) and has been waiting for several years for this baby. I have no idea why she'd risk it now.

AIBU wanting to tell her what I think? Am I (and other worried friends) overreacting? Does anyone know of anyone who's done this, and how it went?

@LostForIdeas please see the very informative and factually correct post from @GrealishHairband above.
So you can “expect” all you like, but I would be gobsmacked if this was the case.

I hate to ask this question but will the body go into labour naturally if the baby has died? Or is it because there's no pressure on the cervix?

I have 4 children and 1 was breech. 3 born naturally and I really didn’t want a C section. However, I spoke to my friends at length and decided it would be safer to have the C section which was good because she was totally entangled in the cord. That is very typical.
I would definitely tell my friend how worried I was about her and her baby in this situation. Maybe offer help with C section after care- often that is what people are worried about. Eg not driving for 4 weeks etc

This woman is a selfish idiot.

@BabyRace

I hate to ask this question but will the body go into labour naturally if the baby has died? Or is it because there's no pressure on the cervix?

In most cases labour would start in the 3 weeks following the death of the baby but not always and it can be very dangerous for the mother if it doesnt or if it starts after this point. Death in childbirth is a really natural outcome, something we sometimes forget I think.

You have nothing to lose by telling her in no uncertain terms what a bad decision shes making. After all, if the baby dies because of her negligence i cant imagine the friendship being the same

Anyone else waiting for this to get deleted?

If I was her and you spouted some of this to me, I would never ever forgive you.

I'd absolutely be able to live with that.

I knew someone who was determined to have a home birth and who also went way past her due date. Her waters broke but not dramatically, she didn't realise that amniotic fluid had nearly all leaked away, labour hadn't started and she was airlifted to hospital (rural area)

There was a good outcome but she was very very lucky

I would rather risk a friendship and tell her than not say anything

@GrealishHairband you are correct that independent midwives with IMUK were unable to continue due to insurance issues, however there are another group of midwives outside the NHS who are still insured to provide intrapartum care www.privatemidwives.com/insurance-and-reassurance/

The OP has not answered questions about the midwife friend, but a registered midwife has to be insured to attend any birth (even a friend’s birth). If the MW is providing care whilst employed by the NHS she would be covered by the Trust’s insurance, but (if this story is true) I would be extremely worried if a MW was providing care for a friend in such a situation and would have expected the MW to have handed over care to come one who is not emotionally involved.
Midwives do have to deal with very complex situations where clients make decisions which we might not consider to be wise or “best”, but when the client is a friend or family member it is almost impossible to remain objective.

I'd be tempted to show her this pretty unanimous thread. It's not exactly the gentle approach, but that poor baby doesn't have time for softly softly. I'd risk the friendship over risking a life.

Please tell her I’m a funeral director and if this is genuine situation it could be a very tragic ending in sight. Hard to believe the hospital are allowing, encouraging or condoning it.

I’m so worried for this woman and her baby

@RedRobyn2021 I think as you are significantly in the minority here with your comments, that you should rethink your comments entirely. The baby is at a very very real risk of dying very very soon. That's worth losing a friend over, I'd say.

Would she be covered by the Trusts vicarious liability if she was acting essentially as a private midwife? I’m not convinced she would be. Or surely a way around the indemnity issue for IM’s is get employed on a bank contract and then just do private IM work in the knowledge the trust will have their back.

Say this woman is booked at Trust A and the midwife is employed by Trust B. Outside of an emergency situation the midwife can not just trot along to her pals house and deliver her baby in the bathtub. The NMC would be raising some serious eyebrows if so. If the midwife is employed by Trust A then the Trust indemnity may cover her but not if she’s acting outside of the Trust plan. The trust have a duty to provide a midwife. But it’s unlikely to be her mate who thinks it’s a spiffing idea because of the aforementioned issues surrounding objectivity etc.

Its such a shame that this will, if they both survive, most likely create a very difficult start for them.

And if she’s not acting in the capacity of an employee then she won’t be covered.

That's scary...all this stuff some people spout about natural birth and anti intervention seems to ignore the fact that if left entirely to nature,many women and babies would die

She is a bloody idiot op rìsking her baby in that way i couldn't not say something

I desperately wanted a natural homebirth. My body just didn't go into labour. Induction didn't do a thing, on the hormone drip, waters broken and cervix still only a fingers width. After C section they concluded that DSs head and shoulders was so big that he wasn't coming down, he was resting high up on my hips so wasn't triggering my cervix to open and wouldn't have come out even if they'd been able to open my cervix.
My body couldn't naturally give birth to my baby. In the natural world he'd have died inside me and probably killed me too.

A woman in my baby group lost her baby during birth, he was fine the whole time, but just stopped breathing during the later stages of labour. I can't imagine anything worse, certainly not my 3 day failed induction and emergency c section.

She's prioritising her perfect birth over her baby's safety at this stage.

Yes I'm gutted my birth was shit, but my baby is safe. To not even be having scans, she doesn't know her placenta is still working properly.

It doesn't happen very often. But it DOES happen.

Selfish fucker

@GrealishHairband

And if she’s not acting in the capacity of an employee then she won’t be covered.

Exactly. If she is an employee of a an NHS Trust she shouldn’t be providing care to her friend, particularly in such a complex and risk laden situation. @scottishlass43 is this an NHS midwife, a privately employed midwife, a doula or a friend who is a midwife and has got in too deep outside of work and so is actually uninsured?