Wanting to tell 44 weeks and breech friend she's risking her baby?

[scottishlass43]

My friend is 44 weeks pregnant with a footling breech. She's determined to have a natural birth at home with another friend of ours who's a midwife. She's been declining all intervention till now and has no cut off point - she wants to let the baby come naturally and doesn't want scans or any monitoring. She refuses to consider a c-section.

She's older (late thirties) and has been waiting for several years for this baby. I have no idea why she'd risk it now.

AIBU wanting to tell her what I think? Am I (and other worried friends) overreacting? Does anyone know of anyone who's done this, and how it went?

A friend did something similar (home birth VBAC eventually at 42 weeks). She had an NHS midwife, student midwife and a doula with her but held off from calling the midwife until as late as possible in case they tried to make her go into hospital. She had to sign something and had meetings to make it clear she was aware of the risks but ultimately they couldn't not provide midwives for her. I felt awfully sorry for the midwives involved.

On the face of it she got away with it, and that's since what she's told others on social media, which of course, runs the risk of spurring others on. What actually happened but she hasn't shared on SM was the baby only just got out after some difficulty, had to be resuscitated, was blue lighted to hospital, where they ended up spending the first few days.

How silly. She's read an article online that could have been written by anyone saying that the place at doesn't degrade? Of course it does!!

If this was one of my friends I'd give them a frank talking to. She's being completely ridiculous, I'm all for minding my own business but if this was someone that I really considered a friend I would have to tell her about the consequences her actions may have.

Once that's done it really is up to her but I couldn't just stand by and say nothing.

I would say something, what a truly selfish thing to do.

I would say something, she may not take it well but tbh I would struggle to be friends with someone who did this and if the worst was to happen then being brutally honest I wouldn’t want to be in the position of having to comfort her. My only sympathy would be for the baby.

@EishetChayil

Why has everything become so extreme? Why can't we have a middle ground between maternity care that doesn't dehumanise women, and care that gives us autonomy without absolute batshittery?

I agree with this 100%.

You won’t be saying anything her midwives and doctors haven’t already said. As for the midwives at hospital supporting her…midwives will always support women, as long as they’re informed re the decisions they’re making. Even if it’s against medical Advice. The alternative is abandoning her to free birth, which would be awful.
OP, I’m interested in your “midwife” friend who’s attending the birth-is she actually a registered midwife? I don’t know any who would voluntarily put themselves in this position. Are you sure she isn’t a doula?

[quote shouldistop]@GrannytoaUnicorn an unborn baby has no legal rights. Social services can do nothing in this situation. [/quote]
Entirely untrue.

Maybe you can share this page with her
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breech_birth#:~:text=Among%20frank%20breech%20babies%20the,among%20footling%20breeches%2015%20percent.
15% of footling breech births have cord prolapse. 15 per cent!!

Absolutely mad with all the modern miracle of medicine at our hands. I Cant believe mw supporting it either!

My placenta failed with my firstborn they only knew of issues because I demanded to be checked over as my bump had shrunk. My waters had all but gone but blood flow through the cord was as expected. I had measured small all the way through that pregnancy. They tried to induce me but that failed after 10 days and she was born via emcs. My placenta had failed and consultant said I was very lucky to have my girl in my arms. They wouldn't allow second pregnancy to go over 40 weeks because of concern for my placenta previously. My son again born vi's section. I tried for a natural birth with my 3rd child and the consultant consented to allow me to get to 41+2 before scheduling a section. The universe had other plans and I developed a serious liver condition which had a high risk if leading to stillbirth. I was diagnosed late at 40 weeks so opted for the section so I didn't get sicker or lose my dd. I asked what would happen if I tried to wait for labour to start and my consultant was very clear that I would be rolling the dice with my health and her life.

I absolutely understand the desire for a natural birth but not at any cost. I'm at peace with the fact that if I do have a fourth child a vaginal delivery is out of the qualestion for me. It makes me a bit sad to think that my body fails in that respect. I would absolutely talk to your friend to understand what is behind her decisions. Ultimately though it is her choice but she is gambling with her child's life.

Sceptre86 My placenta also failed and i felt very ill at 40 weeks nd had lost weight so I was induced and it was only afterwards that they told me about the placenta.

OPs friend is being very stupid risking not only her baby's life but her own too.

I have no words, OP! Just hope to god it goes ok!

@Shefliesonherownwings I am so sorry.

I couldn't sit by and let this happen without telling her just how much danger she's putting her baby in. It's selfish on so many levels. If it's the end of the friendship then so be it, but I couldn't sit there and not have said anything.

@Piglet89

My advice to you OP is that you must put the woman and baby's lives ahead of your friendship. Be as clear talking as you can, and yes say you are risking your baby's life.

PLEASE, please do this. How would you feel @scottishlass43 if something awful does happen and you didn’t speak up?

Clearly she would feel awful as we all will if we read it but don't make it sound like it would be her fault.

You would like to think that the midwife has presented all of the risks, and failing that the woman can do a Google search. It really isn't up to the OP to tell her she's risking her baby's life, surely anyone knows that. I remember reading when I was last pregnant that at 44 weeks the risk of stillbirth is 60%. I'm gobsmacked that any qualified midwife is supporting this.

@timeforanewlife

When Beulah Hunter gave birth to a baby girl, she'd been pregnant for more than 12 months.

Bullshit

@EishetChayil - totally agree with you.
I had both my babies by c/s, they probably wouldn’t have had successful outcomes if I’d had them ‘naturally’, although I would’ve loved a vbac (but not possible due to baby’s position). My elective c/s was a calm and positive experience though, considering it wasn’t the ideal choice.
At the end of the day it’s most important to deliver a healthy baby to a healthy mum.

@timeforanewlife

When Beulah Hunter gave birth to a baby girl, she'd been pregnant for more than 12 months.

I think if you research this you will find that (despite the insistence of her doctor) she wasn't pregnant for 12 months. It is far more likely she was pregnant, and then got pregnant again having lost the first baby but not realised. There was no heartbeat and no movement from the first pregnancy.

to everyone on the thread who has lost a child through stillbirth. I went two weeks over with ds and ended up with an emergency c-section - like so many babies he was held in position by a tangled cord and would never have been born naturally.

@AutumnLeaves21

You won’t be saying anything her midwives and doctors haven’t already said. As for the midwives at hospital supporting her…midwives will always support women, as long as they’re informed re the decisions they’re making. Even if it’s against medical Advice. The alternative is abandoning her to free birth, which would be awful. OP, I’m interested in your “midwife” friend who’s attending the birth-is she actually a registered midwife? I don’t know any who would voluntarily put themselves in this position. Are you sure she isn’t a doula?

There are also plenty of private midwifes around.

They are fully registered MW who have chose to work for themselves rather than withinn the NHS.

So yes i am expecting the MW friend to be a properl;y trained, fully registered MW.

The amniotic fluid is bound to be contaminated with meconium at this stage, the placenta will be functioning less and if there are no signs at all of labour, with a footling breech, the mother needs medical assistance to deliver her child. It's sheer madness that she's not!

This is such a hard situation. My eldest DC was discovered to be footling breech at my standard 40 week appointment and my hospital wouldn't let me leave! They admitted me right then and did a c-section two days later. They said how risky it would be to go into labour at that time... they had two consultants and 3 midwives talk me through it and it made me realise how serious it was.

There's so many risks going that far over even without the breech situation. I feel I would need to present a lot of cold hard facts and risk the friendship - although surely she's already been told all the risks.

Wishing her and her baby luck

There is nothing you can say that will make a difference, I’m sure she knows all the facts. Also as for ‘ reporting’ to the local NHS , of course they are already aware of her. She has been booked in and had scans etc, her name has probably been written on the labour wards handover board for weeks just awaiting the phone call that she has finally delivered. I’m sure she will have had input and appointments with senior MWs and obstetricians as well ( whether or not she has chosen to attend).

At first I was going to stick up for the friend MW in case she just felt stuck in an awkward position of trying to be supportive but maybe was just spending day after day trying to persuade/inform/plead with mum, but now reading she is actively off the record doing S&Ss,…well I have no words for this. THAT is what should be escalated to the trust if you are going to go down that route. Crazy and extremely surprising from a MW. There is advocating and supporting some post-term homebirths and then there is just plain stupidity.

I can’t see a good outcome at all but I really hope I’m wrong. I feel for all the medical staff about to be involved in this I really do.

As stated above, due to indemnity issues IM’s can’t provide intrapartum care currently as far as I am aware imuk.org.uk/news/statement-on-the-withdrawal-of-professional-indemnity-insurance/

Have to say that information isn’t particularly easy to find out.

This woman will have a cacophony of NHS healthcare professionals in her ear telling her how risky this is, but if she has been assessed as having capacity then the decision is hers and hers alone. The baby has no rights until born and the mother has complete bodily autonomy, which uncomfortable as that is, is absolutely correct and right. So she can make decisions about her own healthcare, no matter how bizarre or stupid they may seem to others.

Unfortunately, as others have said, it seems she's in too deep with this. After she has the baby no matter what the outcome is, SS will likely get involved, even if it's just her there to need help.

The midwife friend should be stepping in, and really the mother's GP/midwife/ any healthcare professional involved in her care should too.

Fingers crossed they're both okay and get help soon