Wanting to tell 44 weeks and breech friend she's risking her baby?

[scottishlass43]

My friend is 44 weeks pregnant with a footling breech. She's determined to have a natural birth at home with another friend of ours who's a midwife. She's been declining all intervention till now and has no cut off point - she wants to let the baby come naturally and doesn't want scans or any monitoring. She refuses to consider a c-section.

She's older (late thirties) and has been waiting for several years for this baby. I have no idea why she'd risk it now.

AIBU wanting to tell her what I think? Am I (and other worried friends) overreacting? Does anyone know of anyone who's done this, and how it went?

@scottishlass43 are the midwives NHS midwives in her usual care or friends who are midwives and doing it privately?

Hopefully the mum to be is on mumsnet and reading this thread now. She needs a wake up call.

Social services can place an unborn child on the child protection register but I have never ever heard of this been done in these circumstances.

As a friend I would definitely voice my concerns - you can do it gently. But ultimately it is her choice

Gosh this is giving me anxiety reading this post. Just really hope all turns out ok. So high risk. Well done OP for trying to get through to her.

Do you know when the heartbeat was last heard?

The whole Freebirth movement and women wanting to ‘take back control’ of their bodies and labour/birth had gone crazy to the point of being dangerous in some situations.

When Beulah Hunter gave birth to a baby girl, she'd been pregnant for more than 12 months.

If the mother has capacity no one can force her to do anything she doesn't want to do. SS can get involved antenatally but only if there are concerns about the baby's welfare after it has been born. As parents are allowed to keep their kids even if they decline Vit K/vaccines/other things it is highly unlikely they would get involved. Unless she's already known to SS.

[quote CovidMakesThingsHarder]@scottishlass43 are the midwives NHS midwives in her usual care or friends who are midwives and doing it privately?[/quote]
This

No medical professional should be supporting this

@timeforanewlife

When Beulah Hunter gave birth to a baby girl, she'd been pregnant for more than 12 months.

Beulah or beluga?

The world record for longest human pregnancy is not a safe basis for this decision.

@LagerthaofKattegat

The whole Freebirth movement and women wanting to ‘take back control’ of their bodies and labour/birth had gone crazy to the point of being dangerous in some situations.

Not a surprising reaction to literally decades of being treated poorly in healthcare.

I wouldn't do this - if the worst happens, God forbid, she'll need a friend

I couldn’t be friends with someone whose selfishness caused the death or severe injury to a child. There are so many poor mothers who have to go through this when it’s absolutely not their fault.

I’d say it plainly, not gently and subtly.
It may already be too late. I hope not.
What a stupid risk to take.

@Shefliesonherownwings

As someone who suffered a full term stillbirth, these sorts of situations make me despair and rage. The risks she’s putting on herself and the baby are ridiculous. I cannot believe someone would be so utterly stupid, I’d like to shake her.

Sod not mentioning stillbirths, I’d be ramming the risks down her throat and screw the friendship. My life will never be the same again following my loss, the grief is insurmountable and I wouldn’t wish that pain on my worst enemy. That baby needs to come out now. I’d also be reporting the midwife friend to the NMC for failure to protect.

I'm so sorry you went through that

I had a footling breech baby. I had a private independent midwife - as pro natural birth as you can get - who said c-section no question. It is an incredibly rare - and incredibly dangerous - presentation. And that's before you even consider the risks of 44 weeks gestation. I am aghast at this. The hospital trust can get a court order for a c-section but it usually has to be done (look at court of protection judgments - there are usually a few every year) but it would usually be done on the basis of mental ill health of the mother.

This is not good. Generally would not let the pregnancy go beyond 42 weeks max. I assume the midwife has reported this to her superiors?

www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/she-wanted-freebirth-no-doctors-online-groups-convinced-her-it-n1140096

This was the one. Then there are lots of follow up articles/sites related to this very story. One scenario but shows how dangerous it can be. Unfortunately death is just as natural as birth is.
Think about the number of still births and mothers dying in labour there were hundreds of years ago before medical advances.

@endofthelinefinally

Unless the law has changed recently, even social services cannot order an invasive medical or surgical procedure to be done without consent. It is assault.

With respect, I don't think anyone is suggesting this. But as I said above, I'd be concerned for the mother's mental well-being.

I really hope she seeks medical attention ASAP

@TheYearOfSmallThings

I suspect she's wrong about the dates, probably by one menstrual period. Assuming she's under the care of an NHS team they will be monitoring her closely and press for intervention if needed - I don't believe a midwife would accept the risks of delivering a child at home in the situation you describe.

Sadly, as midwives, we cannot refuse ! Often when the outcome is sadly as predicted the parents try to turn the tables and blame staff.

If I hadnt listened to my body I dont think my eldest son would be here now.
I was the opposite to your friend in that I inisted on having my labour induced at 37 weeks. My son was measuring small but they were not overly concerned. I just knew something wasnt right and if waited longer it would go wrong.
When he was born he was 4lb and the placenta was failing. I subsequently lost another son at 7 months pregnant due to a placental issue.
I would be very brutal with your friend. Her babys life is at risk. She is being a dick.

[quote shouldistop]@GrannytoaUnicorn an unborn baby has no legal rights. Social services can do nothing in this situation. [/quote]
It's not just about the baby! The mother is potentially very unwell mentally!

Being 44 weeks in itself isn't wholly unheard of or dangerous if her placenta is still fine and functioning well

But she doesn’t know if it’s fine because she isn’t having monitoring.

Tbh I knew someone who was 43 years old and went past 42 weeks and refused induction despite medical advice and I thought that was extremely stupid as well. Thankfully baby is fine but it was a very traumatic birth in the end.

How bloody stupid. Proof that some women do put their birth experience before the safety of their baby.

Footling Breech at 44 weeks would have consultant and registrar present at delivery in hospital, and she's having a midwife at home! I can't see any other outcome except a bad one. Please say something.