Wanting to tell 44 weeks and breech friend she's risking her baby?

[scottishlass43]

My friend is 44 weeks pregnant with a footling breech. She's determined to have a natural birth at home with another friend of ours who's a midwife. She's been declining all intervention till now and has no cut off point - she wants to let the baby come naturally and doesn't want scans or any monitoring. She refuses to consider a c-section.

She's older (late thirties) and has been waiting for several years for this baby. I have no idea why she'd risk it now.

AIBU wanting to tell her what I think? Am I (and other worried friends) overreacting? Does anyone know of anyone who's done this, and how it went?

Surely she can be sectioned under the mental health act, for very high risk of causing harm to herself and the baby.

My sisters little one went to 43.5 weeks and even with several attempt to induce over 5 days, she still couldn't get Labour started. She has a c section and they said she wouldn't have started naturally no matter what as the bird was wrapped around the babies neck and was literally holding her right up high. Without pressure off gravity her cervix hadn't Ripened properly. Had she managed to birth naturally, it would have been a disaster due to the way the cord was wrapped so firmly. It would have been compromised and cut off the babies life support from the placenta. It was a complex c section due to this. Her little one is ok now but has had some quite serious developmental delays, processing disorder and autism but obviously they aren't going to say it was due to the birth as the nhs would be liable for letting her go so long without even scanning her.

Stupid and selfish. If her baby is stillborn it will be entirely her fault.

@GrannytoaUnicorn an unborn baby has no legal rights. Social services can do nothing in this situation.

It is very difficult to get anybody sectioned. How would you prove she is severely mentally ill? Usually it takes an attempt to kill yourself or another person. She would have to kill the baby after birth to fulfill the criteria as far as I know. Sorry to be so graphic, it is a horrible thing to type, but it is what it is.

@Babybooboodedoo

Surely she can be sectioned under the mental health act, for very high risk of causing harm to herself and the baby.

I don't think sectioning works that way.

@endofthelinefinally

Unless the law has changed recently, even social services cannot order an invasive medical or surgical procedure to be done without consent. It is assault.

They can’t, but they can assess whether the mother is making choices that are safe for the baby, and act once child is born.

They can’t, but they can assess whether the mother is making choices that are safe for the baby, and act once child is born.

You mean they could potentially remove the child?

She's a fucking idiot.

The comments in this thread make me sick to my stomach.

If I was her and you spouted some of this to me, I would never ever forgive you.

Please don't say anything. It's not your place, she has looked at the risks and chosen to birth her baby the way she wants.

Honestly, I don't know if I'm even going to stay on this site after reading through these comments, I'm absolutely disgusted. Some women have actually talked about forcing her to have her baby against her will.

My best friends brother was born naturally footling breach. It's people like the women in this thread which make me frightened to have anymore children, not birth itself.

I was told the umbilical cord starts to break down after 40 weeks.
I am so sorry - normally I would advocate choice but for your own peace of mind I would arm myself with the facts and sit down with her. Yes she might have heard them before but how will you feel if you don't try and help her baby.
I hope everything works out OK.

I imagine that it goes without saying that this family are already on the radar of SS and will remain so, whatever the outcome. However, if what OP has said is accurate I think it is unlikely that the child will survive and the risk to the mother's life is very high. SS will no doubt have to deal with the fallout.

If I was her and you spouted some of this to me, I would never ever forgive you.

Some of us are aware of that risk and prefer it to not doing all we can to reduce the very real risks of an avoidable baby death.

My best friends brother was born naturally footling breach.

My best friend's brother once ran across railway tracks and was ok. Would you advise it?

If I was her and you spouted some of this to me, I would never ever forgive you.

Yeah, I’d risk your lack of forgiveness in order to save a life and save you a lifetime of agony and misery from a atill birth, for sure.

This is the most selfish, dangerous form of insanity.

Wtf is she thinking? And her midwife friend is even worse as she has to know better.

I'm really sorry you have to experience this when there is so little you can do. Where are her doctors, gp, gyn?

If and it's a massive if the child is born and survives, I would be ringing SS. It's child abuse enough before the child is born and it doesn't bode well for any future decisions she will make.

Fucking hell, all you can do is tell her you are extremely worried about her and you really want her to consider the risks.

Hit post too soon.

It's people like the women in this thread which make me frightened to have anymore children, not birth itself.

If you're so much about choice and all that jazz, own your choices and stop blaming them on other people.

Why has everything become so extreme? Why can't we have a middle ground between maternity care that doesn't dehumanise women, and care that gives us autonomy without absolute batshittery?

@RedRobyn2021

The comments in this thread make me sick to my stomach.

If I was her and you spouted some of this to me, I would never ever forgive you.

Please don't say anything. It's not your place, she has looked at the risks and chosen to birth her baby the way she wants.

Honestly, I don't know if I'm even going to stay on this site after reading through these comments, I'm absolutely disgusted. Some women have actually talked about forcing her to have her baby against her will.

My best friends brother was born naturally footling breach. It's people like the women in this thread which make me frightened to have anymore children, not birth itself.

😆 don’t think the internet’s for you then…

As someone who suffered a full term stillbirth, these sorts of situations make me despair and rage. The risks she’s putting on herself and the baby are ridiculous. I cannot believe someone would be so utterly stupid, I’d like to shake her.

Sod not mentioning stillbirths, I’d be ramming the risks down her throat and screw the friendship. My life will never be the same again following my loss, the grief is insurmountable and I wouldn’t wish that pain on my worst enemy. That baby needs to come out now. I’d also be reporting the midwife friend to the NMC for failure to protect.

Being 44 weeks in itself isn't wholly unheard of or dangerous if her placenta is still fine and functioning well. Some people naturally have longer gestations (my husband and all 3 of his siblings were 43-45 weeks). The thing is if she's footling, she doesn't have the pressure of the babies head on her cervix making her dilate. I was induced at 42 weeks last year and didn't dilate at all, and eventually they discovered that my sons hand was up against my cervix instead of his head! The surgeon who I spoke to after the labour said I wouldn't have ever dilated.

@EishetChayil

Why has everything become so extreme? Why can't we have a middle ground between maternity care that doesn't dehumanise women, and care that gives us autonomy without absolute batshittery?

As people have said, the alternative is forcing this absolute fool to have an invasive medical procedure against her will. We can't do that, but nobody should be indulging her delusion that what she's doing is safe or the sign of a good parent.

@RedRobyn2021 if your friends brother had suffered a different fate you’d be here shouting the exact opposite to what you’re saying now.

Don’t shit on the people who have suffered.

A good friend tells you if you've got spinach in your teeth. Oh, and if you're putting your baby's life and health at serious risk for no good reason.

@DrSbaitso

They can’t, but they can assess whether the mother is making choices that are safe for the baby, and act once child is born.

You mean they could potentially remove the child?

SS can remove children at birth, but they are much much more extreme cases I understand, usually where all previous children have been removed and heavy drink/drug use involved. I don’t work in that sector but have two close friends who do. I highly doubt they’d remove a baby over just refusing a c-section alone.

@RedRobyn2021 There are professional midwives on this thread stating clearly that the circumstances as described are very, very risky for the mother and the baby. Are you against all the advances in medical care that mean we now live longer than most of our ancestors, or just obstetrics?