To not want to lie to DD just so that we don't offend other people's religious and cultural sentiments?

[AliveAndSleeping]

I (and the majority of people) don't believe in this. We know it's not true. I have told DD that I don't believe in it but it's a nice story based loosely on history and that some others do believe it. She can make Up her own mind.

However, now the country I live in has very strong feelings on this matter. I feel that because of peer pressure I need to tell DD either that it is true or ask her to keep quiet about it or her friends will feel bad. I'm worried that if she'll voice her disbelief in the existence of this entity both the other kids and their parents will be offended and possibly ostracise her for it. I'm not exaggerating. Even the Catholic diocese had to apologise today for the comments of one of its bishops who inadvertently told kids the truth.

I'm tempted to lie to her just so that she won't offend anyone. I really don't want to. I don't think I should have to.

What would you do? Would you pretend that Santa exists even though you know that's not true? I love Christmas. I love all the Christmas traditions. The lights, the decorations, advent calendars, Christmas cookies. Even Christmas carols.
Why do kids need to believe in a mythical figure to make christmas magical? Isn't the other stuff enough? If it was any other religious or cultural sentiment would I be expected to lie and go against my beliefs to enable other people to continue with their deceit?

From the wording of your post, it sounds like you’re not British? Does your country / culture have an alternative tradition? So then you could explain what your family did when you were growing up, that Santa may be a thing for British / American children, but you do X which is super special instead!
Ps.. apologies if I’ve got totally the wrong end of the stick.

《Sounds the edge lord klaxon》

If you don't want to play along with the Santa/Father Christmas thing then don't!

I personally have nothing but magical memories of Christmas and Santa- firstly my own memories of visiting Santa and how it felt to really believe and the excitement (which is a few short lived years) when he'd 'been' on Christmas morning. Then those magical years when your own child believes and you get to actually play Santa and create that 'magic' for them and experience it with them.

If you don't do this then you are only losing out- iI can't think of a single you gain by telling your children Santa isn't real and not joining in with the fantasy.

I recall one year , whilst working in a Year 2 class,near Christmas, that a child, whose parents were JW, told the other children at their table that Father Christmas didn't exist and that their parents were lying to them and that when they got older that they'd realise that they'd been lied to.

Teacher and I only discovered this the following day after complaints from other parents.

It was so very difficult to address.

Trouble is, this child was correct.

We don't do Santa and I now tell my son we buy gifts for each other, not Santa. He's 5. I just got annoyed with trying to make it make sense to him; he's a smart kid and the questions were too many.

Meh. I grew up poor and loosely believed in Santa (I wrote lists but rarely got what I wanted). Most Christmas mornings were filled with disappointment, until I realised that the same mum who could barely feed us was also expected to buy us gifts. That made me extremely upset and angry with myself and my disappointment vanished into the air. I also told my younger brother straight away. I think I was around 8/9. Santa being sold to the masses is problematic.

OP i think you must have very intelligent engaged kids! I am a devout believer in God but my kids couldnt give a flying fuck whether i believe in Him or not! Me telling them I did/didn't believe in Gid would be met with an utter non-plussed expression!

If I'd said I told DD that I don't believe there is a god (which I have done) noone would jump down my throat in the UK. It's just Santa where people get so fundamentalist about it

Presumably if you’ve felt strongly enough to have had that conversation with a five year old you’ve also told her not to tell others their beliefs aren’t true though?

*God

Oh get over yourself.

It is harmless fun. Everyone realises in the end but let children be children and have some magic in their lives for a short while.

@DroopyClematis you should have told to e child their JW beliefs were nonsense

@JHMJHM

OP i think you must have very intelligent engaged kids! I am a devout believer in God but my kids couldnt give a flying fuck whether i believe in Him or not! Me telling them I did/didn't believe in Gid would be met with an utter non-plussed expression!

@ufucoffee

It doesn't matter what you think. This isn't about you. Children get so much joy from the story of Santa it's horrible not to let them believe. It only lasts a few years. Get over yourself

Don't children just get a load of joy from Christmas? We 'do' Father Christmas in our house (though as I said upthread, I think my three year old already knows it's a game we play) but if we didn't I think it would have a pretty negligible impact on total joy levels - we'd still have a tree, presents, special food, time with family...

And of course some children don't celebrate Christmas at all, and they seem to largely come out pretty unscathed.

@mnahmnah

I have never heard a single person complain about their terrible parents lying to and deceiving them. Only appreciation for the magic while it lasted and I feel sorry for the kids that are deprived of this because of over-thinking parents

My grand FIL was heartbroken when he found out the truth - probably 80 years or so ago, so DH family have never believed and have still enjoyed Christmases without ruining it for anyone else.

We do FC but I don’t work hard to make them believe and if they asked outright - I wouldn’t lie. We don’t do the elf or any of that.

I try to show them that the tradition is based on baby Jesus being a gift given freely to the world so it’s not about behaviour control or making the grade for the nice list. Our eldest was disappointed to learn the truth, she asked and I didn’t lie, but she likes being a helper now.

@ufucoffee

It doesn't matter what you think. This isn't about you. Children get so much joy from the story of Santa it's horrible not to let them believe. It only lasts a few years. Get over yourself

Like I said. I think Christmas is pretty joyful, anyway with all the fun activities you can do. Why do you need to make up stuff (and more importantly why do I need to make up stuff? I'm not really bothered If others do it)

Also, that's what my god fearing relatives tell me is why I need to believe in God. "It will give you peace and joy". Would you also tell me that I need to my kids to pray to Jesus Christ, Allah, etc because it will give them joy?

I feel so, so sorry for the posters that pop up with this every year. Obviously they missed out on the magic of believing as a child, and as a result genuinely don’t know what their child will miss out on.

I’m in my 50s, and I can still remember the excitement of lying in bed with my sister, listening to my dad in the loft Santa on the roof. It was the best feeling ever. Took my DGS to see Santa today, his little face with the wonder of it all. How could you deny a kid that joy.

@JayDot500

We don't do Santa and I now tell my son we buy gifts for each other, not Santa. He's 5. I just got annoyed with trying to make it make sense to him; he's a smart kid and the questions were too many.

Meh. I grew up poor and loosely believed in Santa (I wrote lists but rarely got what I wanted). Most Christmas mornings were filled with disappointment, until I realised that the same mum who could barely feed us was also expected to buy us gifts. That made me extremely upset and angry with myself and my disappointment vanished into the air. I also told my younger brother straight away. I think I was around 8/9. Santa being sold to the masses is problematic.

This is a really interesting post, you sound like a lovely daughter

So OP,
Do I take it that the Tooth Fairy doesn't come to your house, you don't have fairies at the bottom of the garden, and every book you have about fictional characters will be made into a funeral pyre?

The Loch Ness Monster won't take too kindly to being cancelled either...

@PinkTonic

If I'd said I told DD that I don't believe there is a god (which I have done) noone would jump down my throat in the UK. It's just Santa where people get so fundamentalist about it

Presumably if you’ve felt strongly enough to have had that conversation with a five year old you’ve also told her not to tell others their beliefs aren’t true though?

No, it's not something that i felt that strongly about at that time. It came up in conversation. Don't you talk to your kids? Have your kids never asked you about Santa?

I now feel strongly about it because I'm worried that dd inadvertently will ruin some poor kid's Christmas, have their parents be mad at me and / or lose a friendship.

*Glugglejug

It’s called fun, OP. You should try it.

It's not fun in you are forced into it*

Who is forcing you??!!

I think it’s entirely up to each family. I do find it a bit overbearing when other people expect everyone to maintain this fiction. I mean, I obviously wouldn’t tell a child Santa isn’t real, but I am an adult. However, a child who doesn’t believe should be free to express that belief, just as children who do believe can express that.

My view may be influenced by having children in the family who were adopted. They remember receiving nothing for Christmas. They know that Santa doesn’t bring presents to all children.

So maybe children shouldn’t read or be read stories containing fairies, giants, elves, pixies ? And we’d have to cut out all mythology. And even Harry Potter would have to bite the dust because you can’t have wizards…….. Childhood would be a very sad, impoverished time.

I don’t think any child has ever been harmed by believing in Father Christmas and then discovering he isn’t real.

Is this true though? I'm a practicing Christian, I've explained to my children that some of our friends and neighbours do not believe the same things that we do. They celebrate different holidays. Religious studies in the UK are pretty comprehensive and involve trips to churches, mosques and synagogues as well as other places of worship. I think children in 21st century Britain are pretty familiar with other faiths as well as people who are not religious

I resent having to tell her that it's better if she doesn't talk about it or tells other kids what she believes.

and

I do give a fuck. I wish it wasn't such s big deal to other people so I could happily and honestly discuss with DD what I believe in without having to worry that another kids' Christmas is ruined.

You can’t have it all ways.

You are absolutely free and welcome to tell your DD whatever you like. You can discuss honestly what you believe in.

In that way it’s absolutely no different to religious belief.

Most people who don’t have a religious faith are also at pains to tell their children that this isn’t what everyone believes, so it’s good to be sensitive to other peoples beliefs.

What’s the issue?

Say/do what you like, explain it how you want, then have the courage of your convictions that your DC is telling the truth if it inadvertently slips out.

Most people are t “fundamentalist” about their belief in FC such that one random 5-year-old telling the truth will spoil the magic. Any 5-yr-old who wants to believe has multiple reinforcing factors to shore up the magic - you’re overestimating the effect your DD’s truth-telling might have.

Teach her to say “My mum says everyone believes something different but in our family…” and it’s fine.

Discourage her from saying “You’re all wrong - it’s so stupid, OF COURSE there is no Santa.”

That’s all you need.

I agree with you, OP, the hypocrisy is breathtaking.

Religious people are mocked for 11 months of the year and told believing in God is pathetic and they may as well believe in the flying spaghetti monster, and yet come December, we’re all supposed to join in the great lie of pretending to kids that there is a Father Christmas/Santa.

Handle it like you would anything else and just tell her different people believe different things and have different traditions. If she wouldn't go around shouting there is no God , she wouldn't do it about Santa either. And if she does... well the adults can deal with it. I've had kids like that in my classes, no one died, lost their innocence, was devastated or forever damaged. Add in a multicultural cohort and you get plenty of religious or traditional figures that might bring this that and the other that many of the other children or adults have never heard of much less believe it exists. Or the opposite, religions where Santa/Christmas is not celebrated at all.

Or a compromise would be telling the "we're all santa " aka it's all about giving, and making people happy/helping them and she can be Santa too by doing something kind for someone else/giving them a gift.

You're really over complicating this though. As vicious as some posters on here are when it comes to defending the belief in Santa, there are always kids that don't believe or weren't taught to believe even younger than yours. No one was traumatised for life or lynched because of it.