To worry that I might lose my British citizenship one day because of the new law going through parliament?

[flashbac]

I was born here and so was one parent.

There is a Bill that has just been passed, while we were all distracted with shenanigans with parties and what not, that will allow citizenship to be revoked without notice.

I know the power to remove citizenship already exists but the without notice bit is quite scary. I assume that means someone could happily go about their business until they need to show right to be in the UK e.g new job or new rental and then poof, they can't access things and possibly get detained and then deported when they enquire about it and it's probably too late to contest it through the courts.

I know the responses will indicate how so many don't care, "don't do anything naughty then and they won't put you in the naughty bin ready to be turfed off to another land" but remember the right to protest, to give an example of how easy it will be to get on the wrong side of the authorities, will also be outlawed soon so anyone could be arrested, if the circumstances meant a person was driven to it, e.g you do a sit down protest outside a hospital because they covered up malpractice or, it's decided that a huge Amazon warehouse is built in the field behind your garden and you wanted to protest with your neighbours.

Lots of people will think this only affects 'foriners' so probably won't care. I think it's awful.

This affects my children too. I've signed the petition. I haven't mentioned it to them, as I can't bear to and I just hope it doesn't go through. I think the power to revoke these type of citizens already existed anyway it's just that now they could do it without notification which wouldn't allow legal blocking.

So scary, I am burying my head in the sand.

I do think deporting people is a bad thing obviously, but where exactly could they deport you personally to, if you were born here?

I wouldn't call it a major worry, but yeah, I don't think it's unreasonable to have that niggle that there are different levels of citizenship and some of us are at more risk to lose our rights through the shifting concept that some of us are really less British than others.

It's part why I delayed getting citizenship even though I've lived here my entire adult life, it didn't really feel that much more secure than indefinite leave to remain for the cost and difficulties of it. In either case, it seems like an ever moving goalpost to feel secure and that they keep spreading the net wider.

I've just read the Bill and unless you are a terrorist or planning on commiting war crimes or espionage then I think your unlikely to have your citizenship revoked.

Oh to have such faith in a government that has been pulled up by the courts repeatedly for breaking their own immigration law as well as international agreements around immigrants, refugees, and not making people stateless.

The whole reason this is being brought in is because the UK government has already been doing this for years. They like to play the national security card, but there are multiple cases where people who have lived here and had citizenship for decades with absolutely no connections to any violent groups had it removed with no warning on the Home Office word.

I'm probably being a bit thick but where would they deport people to? Or is this just for people with dual nationality?

They have made people stateless under this - many of the cases I've read about where they try the 'we tried to get hold of them but couldn't' which this law change is going to try to make legally alright involves the person going out of the country for work or just on a trip and the person is refused reentry so no need to bother deporting.

The Fatush Lala case is probably one of the more reported examples I've seen but there are hundreds of examples, it seems what was a 'rare power for high threat cases' has become just standard practice. It's made me a bit nervous about leaving the country. That my kids could be impacted through no fault of their own because of where I was born twists my guts.

Its very scary. The terrorism argument is a very slippery one and a frightening one. Plenty of times it has been abused and will carry on being so. What the government deems as terrorism seems to change with the wind too if you look at people being arrested under this act.

This is what people warned could happen when others were cheering at Shamima Begum losing her citizenship. It's disgusting.

I did wonder what the point of publishing that video about the Christmas party was. I see it now.
This is absolutely disgusting.

@ruggerhug I'm not sure her example is a great one in all honesty but I can see where you're coming from. There are cases where people have been arrested under the terrorism act for things that are nothing to do with the general understanding of the word. This is the biggest worry really. You could really do very little wrong, and be treated as a criminal worthy of deportion.
I remember my English teacher telling us that the more laws a society has, the more broken it is. I don't know where he got that from but its been resonating with me in recent years.

Deportation*

@Iseeyoulookingatme

I've just read the Bill and unless you are a terrorist or planning on commiting war crimes or espionage then I think your unlikely to have your citizenship revoked.

All they need is reasonable grounds -hah! Nice and subjective- and because of how our terrorism laws are constructed, you might not even know about the charges levelled against you.

The law makes it easier to deal with Abu Hamza, but in fact could catch so many more people. Could easily be weaponised by morally defunct govt against... well anyone "foreign".

YANBU

@Iseeyoulookingatme

I've just read the Bill and unless you are a terrorist or planning on commiting war crimes or espionage then I think your unlikely to have your citizenship revoked.

I think we’re meant to think that. I’m in the same boat as OP (dual national, one parent born abroad) and am as far from a terrorist as they come. AND have the advantage of being white. But this bill combined with changes to our right to protest makes me very uncomfortable indeed. The wording on the borders talks about “behaviour that is prejudicial to the vital interests of the UK….” For the time being that implies terrorism…. But just how difficult would it be for that interpretation to be stretched or twisted if the Home Office desires?

It's terrifying. I hope the people who vote YABU can take a second to imagine how it must feel to know you could have your entire life stripped away at any moment.

@RuggerHug

This is what people warned could happen when others were cheering at Shamima Begum losing her citizenship. It's disgusting.

It doesn't make me stop cheering that Begum lost her citizenship. But the fact that she can appeal the decision through the courts with legal aid money shows that if it happens to you, it's not a done and dusted decision.

This:
Its very scary. The terrorism argument is a very slippery one and a frightening one. Plenty of times it has been abused and will carry on being so. What the government deems as terrorism seems to change with the wind too if you look at people being arrested under this act.

And this:
this bill combined with changes to our right to protest makes me very uncomfortable indeed. The wording on the borders talks about “behaviour that is prejudicial to the vital interests of the UK….” For the time being that implies terrorism…. But just how difficult would it be for that interpretation to be stretched or twisted if the Home Office desires?

And especially this:
It's terrifying. I hope the people who vote YABU can take a second to imagine how it must feel to know you could have your entire life stripped away at any moment.

A third of those who have voted (as of now) consider the proposed law to be 'reasonable', which is truly scary if it reflects public opinion.

After the horrifying callousness with which some of the Windrush victims were treated, how can anyone have faith in the moral compass of this government and the people entrusted to enforce these laws?

Am in the same boat. It is terrifying that I could be stripped of my citizenship and sent back to a place I have no real ties with whereas my friend who had had exactly the same life as me, schooling as me, upbringing as me would be subject to the laws and justice of this country. Why does she get to stay and I don't? If we committed the same crimes?

Makes fuck all sense. It's because I'm not white. But I'm good enough to save your lives and front the NHS. Toe the line and you can be British.

@Iseeyoulookingatme

I've just read the Bill and unless you are a terrorist or planning on commiting war crimes or espionage then I think your unlikely to have your citizenship revoked.

Who defines a terrorist? Greenpeace was put on a terrorist watchlist at one point. Any group involved in direct action could be.

Just to clarify, it would be illegal for the government to use this power to leave someone stateless. You would need to hold another nationality before they could revoke your British one. (Not that the Johnson government shows any reticence about breaking the law.)

Or the West Midlands 3. Where Priti Patel signed extradition papers to have 3 British Males extradited to india to face so called terrorist charges but when the case went to the high court the judge found there to be absolutely no evidence of any terrorist activities.

They still need to present a reason to revoke your citizenship through the courts, it's not a case of them doing so without reason. Most countries have similar legislation and having lived overseas I can assure you they don't use it unless you commit a crime

I’d put nothing past this government whatsoever.

I don't trust their reasons. And why would you get to stay but I don't? That makes the citizenship tier based and I'm 2nd class.

We no longer live in a democracy

That was to gogohm

@MurielSpriggs

Just to clarify, it would be illegal for the government to use this power to leave someone stateless. You would need to hold another nationality before they could revoke your British one. (Not that the Johnson government shows any reticence about breaking the law.)

They are saying if your have parents/grandparents who have come to the UK from other countries, they will send you there.

@LiterallyKnowsBest having a parent or grandparent from another country doesn’t always mean you have a claim to citizenship of that country. My husband is American. If we lived outside of the US and had a child in that country the child would only be a US citizen of my husband could prove he had lived in the US for the required amount of time. In our case my husband has lived in the US his whole life so it wouldn’t apply to us but there are many children born to Americans overseas that are not US citizens due to the parental physical presence requirement for overseas births. Ironically, the US filled the principle of jus Solis when it comes to citizenship do anyone born here is automatically a US citizen no matter where their parents were born or live. But children born outside of the US to US citizen parents are not necessarily US citizens.

So it won’t be a case of “your grandad was born in X so you can go there”. No one can be made stateless. Before removing British citizenship it would first need to be ascertained that the person has a valid claim to citizenship elsewhere.

Oh for goodness sake. This is being blown out of proportion. As PP have said, you’d need to commit a pretty serious crime in order for this to even be remotely considered, and even then it is heavily debated/brought to court/fought against etc (e.g. Shamima Begum). You’re not just going to be walking around Tesco, living a normal life, and have your citizenship stripped away from you.