To worry that I might lose my British citizenship one day because of the new law going through parliament?

[flashbac]

I was born here and so was one parent.

There is a Bill that has just been passed, while we were all distracted with shenanigans with parties and what not, that will allow citizenship to be revoked without notice.

I know the power to remove citizenship already exists but the without notice bit is quite scary. I assume that means someone could happily go about their business until they need to show right to be in the UK e.g new job or new rental and then poof, they can't access things and possibly get detained and then deported when they enquire about it and it's probably too late to contest it through the courts.

I know the responses will indicate how so many don't care, "don't do anything naughty then and they won't put you in the naughty bin ready to be turfed off to another land" but remember the right to protest, to give an example of how easy it will be to get on the wrong side of the authorities, will also be outlawed soon so anyone could be arrested, if the circumstances meant a person was driven to it, e.g you do a sit down protest outside a hospital because they covered up malpractice or, it's decided that a huge Amazon warehouse is built in the field behind your garden and you wanted to protest with your neighbours.

Lots of people will think this only affects 'foriners' so probably won't care. I think it's awful.

Starcup the point is that isn't how it started. It's how it ended.

@Meadowbreeze

I'm starting to Think starcup is Pritis Mumsnet name 🙈

I just hope all of the posters who are so sure the government won't abuse it have no family members who this could effect. Yup, this has been a law for a long time, however it's never been the case that you're not informed of this happening.
Also, together with the new policing bill, the definition of a terrorist is completely different to what these posters are going on about.
And EVEN if it wasn't. The whole point is, the citizenship is now two class, the second being so low that you don't even get to know when you've been stripped of it.

Its really quite worrying that some of these posters seem to think that people who hold dual citizenship want terrorists? Are you really that short sighted.
Renouncing your other citizenship makes zero difference. Please read the post before commenting, there's actually some very informative posters on here.

Talk about over dramatic….

@RandomLondoner

"I have two genuine questions: is there always, in law, a distinction between being eligible for a citizenship and having it? And if so, can you not renounce your right to citizenship, in the same way you can renounce the citizenship?"

The two often overlap but are not totally the same. For example, there are several clauses in BNA81 which (as you said) allow the children of British Citizens born abroad and who are not automatically British themselves, to apply to be registered as BCs. They have an entitlement to citizenship, and if an application is received and all the criteria are met, then the citizenship is given. As far as I know there would be nothing in law necessary for anyone to renounce the right to apply to have that entitlement (iyswim) you just wouldn't apply to obtain it. Similarly, you can't renounce your citizenship without providing proof that you have another one. If anyone applied for British Citizenship and is found to have already been British (happens quite a lot, especially with children born abroad) then they are informed- and there's no possibility to "upgrade" as it were by obtaining a "better" citizenship (otherwise than by descent as opposed to "by descent" for example)

@ancientgran- the person you know was very definitely misinformed unless what she meant was that she could un-renounce at a later date. Once you've renounced, any passport is voided and should you try and travel on it it would be picked up the minute it was checked. All passports contain within them what's known as "status check" information, which is basically how the holder is a British national. She may have been misinformed, as an anomaly of the civil service is that it's the Home Office responsible for immigration and nationality law but consulates are staffed by the FO who don't have the same in-depth legislation training (for obvious reasons)

@MaxNormal

Starcup the point is that isn't how it started. It's how it ended.

You’ll need to provide more that that

@Starcup, the international Jewish community know all to well what can happen when they are appointed 2nd tier citizens. As am I.

Why do you think it's ok?

[quote TooBigForMyBoots]@Starcup, the international Jewish community know all to well what can happen when they are appointed 2nd tier citizens. As am I.

Why do you think it's ok?[/quote]
I think you’re OTT about a government decision that will not impact you, ever. So what’s the point in stressing about it?

To add, I’m of Irish descent….

@Starcup

*The international Jewish community is already begging people to stop comparing everything to the Holocaust. Anti-Semitism is on the rise and being fed still further by these lazy comparisons. Principally with regard to Covid and mandatory measures but it doesn't take a huge leap to extrapolate the ludicrous comparison here too. It really needs to stop. Please read what the international Jewish community leaders are saying about this*

Absolutely this. Is disgusting that people continue to make the comparison. It’s an embarrassment and they should be ashamed of themselves for being so disrespectful.

The people who are bringing up the holocaust are the people moaning about bringing up the holocaust.

Starcup Why are you deliberately ignoring everyone giving examples of what has happened before? You might be of "Irish descent" but you clearly never listened to anyone in your family that dealt with the shit in the last century from government bodies.

[quote PAFMO]@RandomLondoner

"I have two genuine questions: is there always, in law, a distinction between being eligible for a citizenship and having it? And if so, can you not renounce your right to citizenship, in the same way you can renounce the citizenship?"

The two often overlap but are not totally the same. For example, there are several clauses in BNA81 which (as you said) allow the children of British Citizens born abroad and who are not automatically British themselves, to apply to be registered as BCs. They have an entitlement to citizenship, and if an application is received and all the criteria are met, then the citizenship is given. As far as I know there would be nothing in law necessary for anyone to renounce the right to apply to have that entitlement (iyswim) you just wouldn't apply to obtain it. Similarly, you can't renounce your citizenship without providing proof that you have another one. If anyone applied for British Citizenship and is found to have already been British (happens quite a lot, especially with children born abroad) then they are informed- and there's no possibility to "upgrade" as it were by obtaining a "better" citizenship (otherwise than by descent as opposed to "by descent" for example)

@ancientgran- the person you know was very definitely misinformed unless what she meant was that she could un-renounce at a later date. Once you've renounced, any passport is voided and should you try and travel on it it would be picked up the minute it was checked. All passports contain within them what's known as "status check" information, which is basically how the holder is a British national. She may have been misinformed, as an anomaly of the civil service is that it's the Home Office responsible for immigration and nationality law but consulates are staffed by the FO who don't have the same in-depth legislation training (for obvious reasons)[/quote]
I think reapplying for a passport was the unrenouncing. She definitely couldn't use her old passport. I might not have explained it well but I get your point about the consulate staff as she had more than one piece of bad advice as have her adult children.

The people who are bringing up the holocaust are the people moaning about bringing up the holocaust

Wrong. To compare it to suffering of millions of people is just so wrong on so many levels.

Starcup are you entitled to Irish citizenship? You will also have 2nd class citizenship if you are.

@RuggerHug

Starcup Why are you deliberately ignoring everyone giving examples of what has happened before? You might be of "Irish descent" but you clearly never listened to anyone in your family that dealt with the shit in the last century from government bodies.

I don’t create a drama about something that is out of my control. What you going to gain from moaning in here? Do you think it will change anything?

@ancientgran

Starcup are you entitled to Irish citizenship? You will also have 2nd class citizenship if you are.

Yes exactly and guess what….. I’m not stressing about it like so many on here, that’s the point!!

@Starcup and you stop being disrespectful by not allowing me to bring up one of the world's worst atrocities which directly effected me and my family! You get to visit aushwitz as a tourist, I get to visit and see my family members names! This world's worst atrocity started with a very similar bill to what the policing bill is, which alongside the new immigration bill is very very scary. Stop being so mean and ignorant.

@ancientgran- you were the first person on the thread to even mention the Holocaust and have mentioned it more than any other poster.

[quote Meadowbreeze]@Starcup and you stop being disrespectful by not allowing me to bring up one of the world's worst atrocities which directly effected me and my family! You get to visit aushwitz as a tourist, I get to visit and see my family members names! This world's worst atrocity started with a very similar bill to what the policing bill is, which alongside the new immigration bill is very very scary. Stop being so mean and ignorant.[/quote]
I’m astounded you’re comparing it given your circumstances.

@Starcup

*The people who are bringing up the holocaust are the people moaning about bringing up the holocaust*

Wrong. To compare it to suffering of millions of people is just so wrong on so many levels.

No I'm not wrong, the holocaust was brought up after I quoted Niemoller. I didn't mention the holocaust and neither did he, Jews were just one of the groups he mentioned, it wasn't the first and it wasn't the last. You and others brought up the holocaust criticising me and the quote. You misunderstand the relevance of the quote which isn't just talking about the holocaust, it isn't just about German people not protecting the oppressed in the 1930s and 40s, it is also a warning about what can happen if we ignore a risk just because we think we are safe.

I realise it is pointless addressing it with you as you are now so entrenched you couldn't possibly acknowledge it so bye.

@starcup I'm astounded you can't see my point given your circumstances.

I have wondered how this might affect me.

Both my daughter and I are Australian born , Australia citizens but have lived in the UK on British passports since 2010.

I met her British dad when he was backpacking through Australia. We weren’t married when we had her. She qualified for the passport because of his British citizenship.

I was able to apply for a British passport as my mother was Scottish born and though she had moved to Australia as a child in the 70s, she and my grandma were still British citizens.

Could put British passports ever be revoked under this new bill?

[quote PAFMO]@ancientgran- you were the first person on the thread to even mention the Holocaust and have mentioned it more than any other poster.[/quote]
I didn't start the holocaust quotes, I quoted a poem by Niemoller which does not mention the holocaust and is applicable to the attitude of people on here.

@ancientgran- an advanced search shows that your insult and comparison of choice on Mumsnet for at least the past decade is to casually throw comparisons to Nazis and the Holocaust into each and every argument.

@ancientgran very well put. There doesn't seem to be a way to get this across to these posters. It seems to he a funny joke to them. I hope to god they're right and I have nothing to worry about.

I think you’re OTT about a government decision that will not impact you, ever. So what’s the point in stressing about it?

I think you are being naive and ignorant of history if you think two tier citizenship is the answer to terrorism. You say it will never impact me. I dont believe you and I don't believe this current government.

**No I'm not wrong, the holocaust was brought up after I quoted Niemoller. I didn't mention the holocaust and neither did he, Jews were just one of the groups he mentioned, it wasn't the first and it wasn't the last. You and others brought up the holocaust criticising me and the quote. You misunderstand the relevance of the quote which isn't just talking about the holocaust, it isn't just about German people not protecting the oppressed in the 1930s and 40s, it is also a warning about what can happen if we ignore a risk just because we think we are safe.

I realise it is pointless addressing it with you as you are now so entrenched you couldn't possibly acknowledge it so bye**

But I ruin the scaremonger narrative thought don’t I? Because people can’t keep saying ‘it doesn’t affect you bla bla bla’ because actually technically it would. So that stops that argument in it’s tracks.

👋 bye

[quote Meadowbreeze]@starcup I'm astounded you can't see my point given your circumstances.[/quote]