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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be worried my sister is doing the Alpha course?

510 replies

Southtrainer · 11/12/2021 11:30

Just for a bit of context. My family is and always has been agnostic and left wing. My sister (early thirties) recently met a new partner who comes from a very religious evangelical Christian family. Their relationship surprised us all thinking there was be such a gulf that they wouldn’t stay together long but recently my brother told me my sister is doing the Alpha course and he was concerned she might have some pressure on her to convert to their religion. I’d this right? I’ve never had any experience of this course or religion. I’m worried. Thanks for any info or experiences x

OP posts:
Lifeisaminestrone · 11/12/2021 15:45

All Christians are different!

I’m really quite upset reading Christians are anti-gay and anti-women.

I go to church to help me see a different perspective (from when I used to work in the city and people were so financially driven).

I also use my faith to pray for those in need and in the past support the more vulnerable children in society. In that role (and other church members) we never tried to convert, was just there for support.

I have done the Alpha course for an evangelical church and did not stay as found it as other posters have suggested. If my CofE church did it, I wouldn’t attend due to past experiences but I wouldn’t be anti it either.

To me being a Christian is showing love and kindness not doing a hard sell on conversion.

Faith is not a problem but many non-believers sadly disagree with it.

ricepolo · 11/12/2021 15:47

Christianity as a religion instituted and perpetuated by men in order to ensure their own power and strength may well be anti women.

But Christianity as a lived belief isn’t anti women. Jesus loved and respected women! He treated them as equals to men in a society which institutionally and culturally saw them as second class citizens. This was truly revolutionary. Women were in no way inferior: it’s human distortion for their own ends of what Jesus said and who he was which has led to a false understanding and caused so much damage.

ALightThatNeverGoesOut · 11/12/2021 15:49

Faith is not a problem but many non-believers sadly disagree with it.

V few people see themselves as the bad guy, despite how they appear to others.

Lunificent · 11/12/2021 15:52

I’d be concerned about the red flags you mention. I don’t know what you could do about it though.

speakout · 11/12/2021 15:56

Faith is not a problem but many non-believers sadly disagree with it.

I don;t see what is sad about that.

youvegottenminuteslynn · 11/12/2021 16:00

To me being a Christian is showing love and kindness not doing a hard sell on conversion.

Faith is not a problem but many non-believers sadly disagree with it.

Many non-believers are kind and loving without faith. That's not sad, it means they're being kind and loving for altruistic reasons rather than for reward or fear of punishment. I think that's pretty brilliant actually.

PerfectPrepPrincess · 11/12/2021 16:01

@Southtrainer

isn't that what evangelicalism is all about

Evangelicalism is about spreading Christianity and hopefully converting yes. BUT only if it's the choice of the one considering converting. Think of them like enablers.

Unfortunately there are many 'wrong' churches who give 'good' churches a bad name. Similar situation to the those who think all Muslims are jihadusts and terrorists, obviously they're not 😂

The Bible actually advises people to be wise to the 'wrong' churches /preachers and to seek the truth, not their spin on it.

Your sister dropping her gay friends is definitely not Christian and if her BFs branch of evangelical Church believes it is, they are definitely part of the 'wrong' church as God's instruction is to love all.

I've recently read a part of the bible that even does away with the need for a gender, taking me a long time to digest but it's there... The problem with the bible is that that the authors are no longer around to explain, its been translated from translations of translations, there are several books and chapters missing and it requires a certain amount of cognitive ability to interpret sensibly.

PerfectPrepPrincess · 11/12/2021 16:07

I actually remember Nicky Gumble comparing homosexuality to paedophilia thinking about it, as one poster has recalled. This didn't sit well with me, but the thing about being a true believer isn't following what others say, but what God says. God says love all, not what Nicky Gumble says or suggests. You have to interpret the Bible with the social and historical context of when it was written, if you don't you're fooling yourself.

kmblark · 11/12/2021 16:07

[quote Southtrainer]@PerfectPrepPrincess
I suppose initially their very different views that she suddenly stopped talking about in front of him, she stopped seeing her gay friends, he comes into zoom family chats and she goes quiet. She gave up a good job and life to
Move across the country to be with him (which I suppose is normal but he didn’t offer to move there).

Im still not sold on her not being converted. As another rooster said- that is part of what evangelical Christians believe is it not?[/quote]
This is a gigantic red flag, and my advice would be to be to let your sister k ow you're there fr her in case she ever needs help to leave this bastard.

EnidSpyton · 11/12/2021 16:08

@EducatingArti

See I think you are shifting arguments there. Up thread you said specifically that all Christian churches pretty much were anti-gay. This is actually not true as I have shown. Many many Methodist churches will also have a very inclusive attitude for example.

I don't agree that Christianity is inherently homophobic. I am a Christian and not homophobic ( I hope!) . If I thought that my belief system was inherently homophobic I'd have to live with an irreconcilable conflict of belief within myself... I question, struggle and grow in my understanding of and relationship with God, I don't have all the answers for sure and I don't even know all the questions, but I do believe that true Christian faith is a dynamic, growing developing and redeeming thing. I can see this in the Bible when I look at how people shifted and changed ( either towards or away from) as a result of relating to Jesus. Our faith is not a static thing.
I don't think the homophobia within the church ( and there, I do agree with you that there is lots of it) is actually inherent to Christianity as a faith. I do think that many Christians misinterpret the Bible and I don't claim to have a monopoly on correct interpretation myself. However I do believe there is an undercurrent of evangelical ( maybe post-evangelical?) thinking that is coming to very different and more radical conclusions on biblical interpretation.

But all Christian churches pretty much are anti gay. You linking to literally two examples doesn't disprove my statement. There are millions of Christian churches of all denominations all over the world. The vast, vast majority are homophobic. You know this as well as I do. Just because your church supposedly isn't homophobic (though apparently it was sufficiently rabidly homophobic up to four years ago to cause one of your congregation to kill themselves, so...) doesn't mean the wider religion isn't. I'm afraid it is. If it weren't, churches who adhere to the central tenets of the Christian faith wouldn't be allowed to preach that homophobia is a sin. And yet they are and many do.

That's great that you're not homophobic. And I agree that Christianity as a faith at its heart is supposed to be about loving and accepting everyone no matter what as Jesus supposedly did when he was alive. That's a beautiful message. But the Bible doesn't actually say that, most Christians don't practice that, and the reality is that all religions are a way for humans to wield power over others.

I have never been so judged as I have been inside Christian communities.

It also amazes me that so many Christians think they have the monopoly on kindness and good works. The vast majority of charitable organisations in the world are not affiliated to any religion. Being religious doesn't make you a better person than anyone else. In fact, often, I think it makes people worse, because Christianity encourages you to view yourself as part of an 'elect' that has been 'chosen' to be 'saved'. You have come to 'see the light' and know 'the truth' - and therefore will go to heaven while the rest of us will die screaming in agony because we didn't spend our lives either self flagellating over our numerous sins or judging other people for theirs.

I don't have a problem with people going to church if it makes them happy. My problem is that a lot of churches - particularly evangelical ones - don't. They make people miserable by trying to make them change everything about themselves so that they conform to a narrow set of reactionary beliefs that coincidentally revolve around men getting to do whatever the fuck they want while women do the washing up and look after the kids.

PerfectPrepPrincess · 11/12/2021 16:15

@EnidSpyton I'm sorry to hear you've had bad experiences with Christianity but it doesn't mean you're right, only that your experience is your experience. The only way to prove you are right, if that's really what you're driven to do, is to cite evidence but when 2 billion out of 8 consider themselves Christian (obviously the majority not devout) you have to ask yourself why?

RB68 · 11/12/2021 16:16

I did alpha about 30 yrs ago - for me it was just about meeting like minded folk a bit of socialising when i was not in a great place. It deepened a number of friendships as we discussed issues around the videos or readings they had (not religious per se but about matters religion has views on) . I can see how it might lead more vulnerable people to cowtow a bit and think oh this is how I must do something. Am I a Christian - I don't think so even though brought up catholic. I found catholic school more indoctrinating than Alpha

PerfectPrepPrincess · 11/12/2021 16:18

@EnidSpyton I definitely don't consider myself saved and part of the elect. I'm coming to the realisation that very very very few are. You can aliken being redeemed /saved to reaching enlightenment.

ftw163532 · 11/12/2021 16:19

I have never been so judged as I have been inside Christian communities.

This is my experience and that of generations of my family. I agree with the rest of the post too.

The usual air of superiority is coming across from those posters claiming Christians don't judge.

withlotsoflove · 11/12/2021 16:23

I can’t imagine why anyone would decide to be in ^any* form of any religious group these days !

PerfectPrepPrincess · 11/12/2021 16:24

I can’t imagine why anyone would decide to be in any form of any religious group these days!

Hope

ftw163532 · 11/12/2021 16:25

And cults are not about "bad people". People who lead cults don't act like monsters, and people who get sucked in are not monsters.

Saying "I know people who've done Alpha and they're lovely" is not an argument for or against it being a cult. It's entirely irrelevant but very revealing about the thought process of those saying it.

If you walk around looking for "monsters" you will miss the regular people behaving in monstrous ways. That's pretty much the recurring theme in safeguarding failures - "oh but he seemed like a nice guy so I took his word...".

PerfectPrepPrincess · 11/12/2021 16:27

@ftw163532. That's a really weak argument as that can mean ANY group is a cult 😂

ftw163532 · 11/12/2021 16:29

but when 2 billion out of 8 consider themselves Christian (obviously the majority not devout) you have to ask yourself why?

The answer to that is not what you are inferring. What a silly thing to say.

But well done on oozing the sense of superiority you claim to eschew.

PerfectPrepPrincess · 11/12/2021 16:31

In how is that fact me eschewing superiority? I can say exactly the same thing about how you're writing 😂

BlackMamba99 · 11/12/2021 16:32

Don't worry about Alpha. It's nothing to fret about. It's just explaining about what Christianity is to those who are curious or thinking of becoming Christian. You don't have to go every week, it's all quite laid back an optional. I went a few times as I am a Christian but had a crisis in faith. A few visits it wasn't really for me but not in a bad way, i just preferred in the end to sort my beliefs out in my own way. Nice you're looking out for her though.

youvegottenminuteslynn · 11/12/2021 16:35

but when 2 billion out of 8 consider themselves Christian (obviously the majority not devout) you have to ask yourself why?

I don't understand your point. I would bet my life that vastly more than 2 billion people in the world are misogynists, sexists, homophobic etc. It doesn't mean that their values are superior or justified just because lots of other people think it too.

And in any case, 1.9 billion follow Islam and 1.1 billion follow Hinduism. Do you ask yourself why and believe that somehow lessens the validity of your own religion?

By your own logic, 6 billion people don't consider themselves Christian, so surely you 'have to ask yourself why'?

PerfectPrepPrincess · 11/12/2021 16:38

1.9 billion Muslims share the same God as Christians and however many Jews also.
I know why people believe in other religions, I know why people choose not to believe in anything. I do wonder these things and I do theorise as to why do you what's you're point?

Are we all just Christian bashing now?

EnidSpyton · 11/12/2021 16:42

[quote PerfectPrepPrincess]@EnidSpyton I'm sorry to hear you've had bad experiences with Christianity but it doesn't mean you're right, only that your experience is your experience. The only way to prove you are right, if that's really what you're driven to do, is to cite evidence but when 2 billion out of 8 consider themselves Christian (obviously the majority not devout) you have to ask yourself why?[/quote]
My experience proves that I am right.

My experience wouldn't have happened, in multiple mainstream evangelical churches registered as charities and under the umbrella of the evangelical alliance, if the kind of misogynistic and homophobic teaching I was exposed to for years weren't supported and encouraged by the governing bodies of the Christian church.

So much damage has been done to people in the name of Christianity for many hundreds of years. If I started to 'cite the evidence' I'd be here until kingdom come, love.

Look, I respect everyone's right to faith and if you're happy in your beliefs, that's great. But as someone who has suffered hugely from psychological abuse at the hands of church leaders for years, and who has seen many other people go through the same experience, I see it as my duty to speak out about it. So many people have no idea because they've never been inside these churches. They're on every high street. They're full of white, middle class, well educated people. And they preach hatred. People need to know about them. Behind the glossy white smiles and the carefully posed photos of people from all colours of the rainbow on their websites, they're not inclusive, they're not accepting, and they're not kind. They want to convert you, they want your money, and they want you to mould your life to fit their narrow view of what makes a good Christian. And the minute you voice any doubts, or make any lifestyle choices they don't agree with, and they can't manage to pray your deviance out of you, you're out the door without a backward glance.

hivemindneeded · 11/12/2021 16:45

I can categorically promise OP that the Alpha course is as far from a cult as any religious experience I've ever had.

What they don't do:
Call you all the time and badger you to spend every waking minute with them
Encourage you to stay away from family and friends who might be critical of Alpha
Ask for your worldly goods
Remove you from daily life
Have a guru figure you shoudl obey
Get angry if you disagree

What they do do:
Talk about the bible and Christianity
Ask you if you have any questions
Ask if you'd like to stay for food
Not mind if you can't

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