To be worried my sister is doing the Alpha course?

[Southtrainer]

Just for a bit of context. My family is and always has been agnostic and left wing. My sister (early thirties) recently met a new partner who comes from a very religious evangelical Christian family. Their relationship surprised us all thinking there was be such a gulf that they wouldn’t stay together long but recently my brother told me my sister is doing the Alpha course and he was concerned she might have some pressure on her to convert to their religion. I’d this right? I’ve never had any experience of this course or religion. I’m worried. Thanks for any info or experiences x

It was the United Reform church, I've remembered. They also have an actively LGBT+ UR in our local city as well.

I do think some evangelical churches are anti-gay, they were in the past, and also condemned people getting divorced, but there's a huge diversity now of different churches.

I would be worried about your sister, not specifically about Alpha, more that she's been taken over by this quite controlling man- keep talking to her and the lines of communication open if you can.

You can be gay and 'out' in the church but the expectation is you will be celibate and never act upon your feelings.

Sometimes, not necessarily. I know gay married couples who play an active role in their (Anglican) church.

Ex Christian here, I've done the alpha course a couple of times and lead it loads more, it's more about the relationships I think.
She'll be mixing with his friends and family who will be there because they encourage lots of the church to come and be extra friendly to those on the course. There's a meal and a discussion, it is a really good way for your sister to see what his church is like and what he believes without committing herself. The course is very light and easy. I wouldn't be worried.

"The church as a whole"

What do you mean by the church as a whole. Which church?

@OnwardsAndSideways1 interesting you say that. I have noticed wherever I live that the United Reformed Church always seem to have the most active community programme that is non-religious. They have always run lots for kids and elderly people.

I'd definitely be more worried about the boyfriend than about the alpha course per se. Do you live near your sister? Could you do the course with her? Might be a great way to connect and get close with her, and if her relationship isn't good, you will be in a position to support her.

[quote EducatingArti]@EnidSpyton
stjamesandemmanuel.org/inclusion/
No, not all Christian Churches are anti-gay!
It is a problematic area that's for sure but your statements are way too black and white to reflect the current situation. I think a lot of things have shifted and changed in the last 20 to 30 years. Some churches may be as you describe for sure but many won't be, even at the more evangelical range of the spectrum![/quote]
Thing is, when you look at that website, what it doesn't say is what they actually believe about being gay.

They say they are accepting. That doesn't mean they believe homosexuality isn't a sin.

They say they are scripturally faithful. In the Bible it says homosexuality is wrong (in a couple of very brief places). So if they're scripturally faithful, they therefore still believe homosexuality is wrong.

You can't get around the fact that at its heart, Christianity is a misogynistic and homophobic religion. Churches can be as accepting as they like, but if they're preaching a religion that has at its heart beliefs that women are lesser than men and anything other than sex between men and women is sinful then it's never going to be anything other than empty words.

Most evangelical churches are sadly as I describe. Honestly, I've had twenty years of experience of this. I still have a huge number of friends all over the country embedded in these churches.

A lot of Christians want to turn a blind eye to it and say 'oh but my church isn't like that'. But so many, many, many of them are. And they destroy lives. They really, really, do. I wish more Christians would realise this and do something about it rather than bleating on about how lovely and accepting their church is because they've got a lovely gay couple who feel super welcome and a woman who's 'allowed' to preach every other week. I mean, come on.

My family have always been very anti-religion and very disdainful about the idea of belief in God. I've not told them that I've been reading the bible, praying, and going to church for the last little while. I'm dreading it ever coming up in conversation. I know they'll think I've lost my mind and be quite scathing about it. Or think I need some kind of intervention.

Just to say, maybe your sister's interest in religion isn't a red flag in and of itself. Although I can understand why you're worried in the context of her relationship.

@julieca yes, in the local church I occasionally attended, they did weekly visits to all the elderly people who couldn't get into church, visited those ill/dying, did drops of food/medicine (before covid) and also ran things for LD adult as well, it was very impressive and just based on the goodwill of a few people. Sadly though it's an older church population and doesn't have many young people- I don't know how many people who would be prepared to dedicate themselves to 'good causes' in that slightly old-fashioned way anymore, or perhaps they don't have time to do so either.

I'm not deeply religious myself but I felt quite happy there and used to enjoy sitting and thinking on a Sun morning...

MYOB?

I’d be more disappointed she’s dating (what you’ve made sound like) a religious fundamentalist than the course itself. But she’s an adult, what can you do?

@EnidSpyton

OP have since seen your other posts about your sister's behaviour changing since she's been with this guy.

A lot of evangelical Christian men are very controlling. They're attracted to the church because it gives them legitimised power over women.

Evangelical Christians believe men are superior to women, that they have the role of the head of the household, that they are the authority over the household, etc etc etc. They believe that a woman's job is to 'submit' to her husband.

Evangelical Christian readings of the Bible are built around perpetuating a narrative of rightful male dominance over women. There's also a HUGE and incredibly unhealthy focus on sexual purity and homophobia.

Evangelical Christianity IS a cult. It's led by a small group of men who enjoy the power it gives them over others. Honestly, unless you've been in that world, you will never truly understand how toxic it is.

I would be doing whatever I could to get her out of this relationship before you lose her altogether.

I agree. With everything you said.

Well I am not at all religious but my ex flat mate was doing the Alpha course and was an absolute sweetheart. She left the flat to get married (I attended!). She came from a religious background as her father was a vicar/pastor/whatever you call 'em.

We still keep in touch. Apart from inviting me to a church (for carols), there was no pressure to join. She knew how I felt!!!

@EnidSpyton
The church I linked to does welcome,accept and affirm those in gay and lesbian relationships. They hold annual gay pride events in their grounds. My same sex relationship friends and their children have been made very welcome there.
You can read a bit of the church story here about how tragedy transformed their approach. They have more women than men on their leadership team I think and women are certainly as much of a driving force as men in developing the focus and direction of that church.
stjamesandemmanuel.org/didsbury-pride-and-the-church-that-changed/
and there are Christians at the evangelical end of the spectrum who are engaging deeply with these things.
My personal view is that Christians need to check out what the Bible actually says about women, homosexuality etc in the context and culture in which things were were originally given. Many Christians are doing this and coming to surprising conclusions.

www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/gallery/thousands-come-together-celebrate-didsbury-21485663
@EnidSpyton

I’d be a little concerned. I know 2 friends who separately did the alpha course. They both then chose to move to different cities miles from home to “plant” a church and largely cut themselves off from previous friends.

[quote EducatingArti]@EnidSpyton
The church I linked to does welcome,accept and affirm those in gay and lesbian relationships. They hold annual gay pride events in their grounds. My same sex relationship friends and their children have been made very welcome there.
You can read a bit of the church story here about how tragedy transformed their approach. They have more women than men on their leadership team I think and women are certainly as much of a driving force as men in developing the focus and direction of that church.
stjamesandemmanuel.org/didsbury-pride-and-the-church-that-changed/
and there are Christians at the evangelical end of the spectrum who are engaging deeply with these things.
My personal view is that Christians need to check out what the Bible actually says about women, homosexuality etc in the context and culture in which things were were originally given. Many Christians are doing this and coming to surprising conclusions.[/quote]
But how fucking awful that a 14 year old girl had to commit suicide before your church realised that their attitude towards homosexuality was so damaging it was driving people to want to kill themselves. If she hadn't have committed suicide, would they have changed their tune, I wonder?

Don't get me wrong, it's great your church has done this soul searching and has realised they need to change.

But no church should need a child to kill themselves out of utter despair at the way they've been made to feel by their church community for a church to realise that they're preaching hatred.

Should they?

lizzielowe.org/shaping-an-inclusive-loving-and-faithful-church/
@EnidSpyton
The church describes itself as both evangelical and fully inclusive.
It is a tricky and difficult area, I agree but there is movement within the evangelical church for change and I just don't think it is true to describe all Christian churches as anti-gay.

@EducatingArti, I agree, there are some churches that are accepting of LGBTQ.

But as a religion, the overwhelming belief system across all denominations is homophobic.

You can't deny that isn't true. Linking to a couple of churches that do gay pride doesn't erase the reality that Christianity is inherently homophobic.

Maybe it’s the other way round and through exploring Christianity she met her new partner and not that the partner forced Christianity on her.

I mean the entire point of Alpha is to convert people into evangelical christianity. If you'd be concerned about that wrt your sister then yeah I think you should be concerned wrt alpha.

I'm sure there are lots of nice people who are evangelical christians. But what they preach doesn't cohere with a pluralistic liberal society imo. And that's what - under the guise of "discussion" and "exploration" - alpha does to non believers in the hope that they will become believers. And they do have a v good success rate, conversion wise.

See I think you are shifting arguments there.
Up thread you said specifically that all Christian churches pretty much were anti-gay. This is actually not true as I have shown.
Many many Methodist churches will also have a very inclusive attitude for example.

I don't agree that Christianity is inherently homophobic. I am a Christian and not homophobic ( I hope!) . If I thought that my belief system was inherently homophobic I'd have to live with an irreconcilable conflict of belief within myself... I question, struggle and grow in my understanding of and relationship with God, I don't have all the answers for sure and I don't even know all the questions, but I do believe that true Christian faith is a dynamic, growing developing and redeeming thing. I can see this in the Bible when I look at how people shifted and changed ( either towards or away from) as a result of relating to Jesus. Our faith is not a static thing.
I don't think the homophobia within the church ( and there, I do agree with you that there is lots of it) is actually inherent to Christianity as a faith. I do think that many Christians misinterpret the Bible and I don't claim to have a monopoly on correct interpretation myself. However I do believe there is an undercurrent of evangelical ( maybe post-evangelical?) thinking that is coming to very different and more radical conclusions on biblical interpretation.