To be worried my sister is doing the Alpha course?

[Southtrainer]

Just for a bit of context. My family is and always has been agnostic and left wing. My sister (early thirties) recently met a new partner who comes from a very religious evangelical Christian family. Their relationship surprised us all thinking there was be such a gulf that they wouldn’t stay together long but recently my brother told me my sister is doing the Alpha course and he was concerned she might have some pressure on her to convert to their religion. I’d this right? I’ve never had any experience of this course or religion. I’m worried. Thanks for any info or experiences x

There’s a lot worse out there than Alpha.

I have led the Alpha course at our church for mums in the daytime, and to be honest, we mostly watch the videos then use the time to discuss our lives like any other parenting group. Out of dozens of women, we have two that have continued to attend church. That is exactly how I would want it, and I don't feel bad or pressured by our church to not have converted everyone. That isn't the point of Alpha at all. That said, there are a lot of people 50+ who REALLY push and proselytize, but I don't know anyone under 40 like that.

@JaninaDuszejko

I'm as atheist as they come but the CofE is hardly a dangerous cult. She'll be fine.

The partner is evangelical.

@Echobelly

I wouldn't worry about Alpha, it's not extreme or culty, it's just a course about Christianity, yes there will probably be encouragement to fully embrace Christianity but I think pretty much the whole idea of it is not to be 'pushy'. I'm Jewish, BTW, but it's always sounded like a fairly reasonable thing to me.

How much do you actually know about how cults lure people in?

Because it's also precisely by not being 'pushy' and using the same psychological tactics as Alpha.

I have been told the Alpha course is anti gay? Although it is very much hate the "sin" but love the "sinner".

My sister did it. Went through a phase of being involved with the local c of e Church. We are all total non beleivers.
Nothing wrong with exploring this at all. As it turns out she knocked it on the head when one of her dc came out as gay and key members of the congregation blanked her.

@maddiemookins16mum

There’s a lot worse out there than Alpha.

I think that sets the bar in the wrong place.

I think MNet in general seems to be more christian/religious than UK society so I'm not sure you will necessarily get a completely balanced response.

I'm an atheist, I don't have a problem with what others choose to believe as long as it has no effect on me. Some people particularly the bereaved find comfort in religion. However, I think that many religious organisations are not as benign as they choose to present.

I think Alpha is pretty mainstream but I'd be more worried about your general posts about your sister changing lots of her life and personality to fit into this. I guess though that a lot of people compromise/adopt new views etc when they spend a lot of time/become involved with a new person. This somehow seems more than that? I don't know what the answer is OP but I guess you just need to be there for your sister and lay the ground rules that you are not on a list for conversion by her.

I have a few friends that are religious, we don't tend to talk about it other than general references as in "I met x when I was at church on Sunday etc"

Why would you be worried? The Alpha course does not teach any radical ideas. I'm not religious but have worked with people who were born again / alpha course subscribers and they were lovely, generous and kind people.

@EnidSpyton

Having spent most of my teens and twenties in evangelical churches (now consider myself atheist), I would be wary.

The Alpha Course is billed as a place to discuss and ask questions but ultimately its aim is to convert people to Christianity. All of the people delivering the course will have the objective of converting attendees. It's disingenuous to pretend otherwise.

The Alpha Course comes out of the CofE but it was designed by Nicky Gumbel, who runs Trinity Brompton in London. He's part of the evangelical C of E wing who believe in traditional values like no sex before marriage, women's place is in the home (no leadership roles in the church for women, etc), and homosexuality as being wrong.

OP if your sister is genuinely interested in spirituality and wants to find out more then it's not going to be a bad experience - she'll get a free meal and will meet some kind and well intentioned people. However, I would be concerned that she's about to be sucked into a church tradition that seeks to control and diminish women. That is what evangelical Christianity is all about. I'd also be very concerned with her being in a relationship with someone who holds those views.

Stay alert and ensure you keep talking to her about it. I could say much more but as someone who calls themself a recovering Christian you can probably appreciate I haven't had a good experience of evangelical Christianity. Most Christians are very lovely people but ultimately evangelical Christianity is a self centred religion that has judgement of self and others at its heart and personally I think it does a huge amount of damage to people, especially women. I thank my lucky stars every day that I had friends who helped me get out.

Woah, not all Evangelical Christians hold all of the views you describe! There's a mix of different thoughts on the place of women, homosexuality, etc. My church is mainstream evangelical but supports women in leadership, preaching etc. You will find some within the congregation that have the views you describe on homosexuality and some who don't. The only thing I think the vast majority would adhere to is the saving sex for marriage. There are problems within the evangelical church about accepting homosexuality etc but you will also find Christians within this churches ( at least some of them) who hold different views and are working to support change from the inside.

@Southtrainer

I’m worried that she has had pressure to do the course and convert to something I know previously she would never have considered. I suppose I’m thinking it’s sort of coercive in this instance (within the context of their relationship which has a few other red flags).

Yes re the left wing thing, I suppose I was highlighting the fact that my family is very liberal and not conservative with a little c, whereas his family, via their religion I believe, have very different views on LGBTQ+ rights, Women’s rights etc. They (the family) are fundamentalist Christians and interpret the bible in that way. I’m not sure denying evolution would be considered mainstream nowadays @knittingaddict or maybe I’m wrong 🤷‍♀️

I think if you have concerns about her being in a coercive realtionship, the Alpha course might actually help....she will meet a spectrum of people who have all kinds of views about christianity and many (most) of them will be from the liberal end. having said that, how Alpha is presented is not, I think, closely monitored and there is the risk that it could be "flavoured" according to the church running it. Did her partner or his parents steer her to one particular group?

i tried an Alpha course, but had lost interest and patience soon enough, maybe i'll try again sometime.
And really don't care for left-wingers recent few years. Maybe OPs sister feels the same.

@julieca

I have been told the Alpha course is anti gay? Although it is very much hate the "sin" but love the "sinner".

The church as a whole is anti gay.

It's all about hate the sin, love the sinner.

You can be gay and 'out' in the church but the expectation is you will be celibate and never act upon your feelings.

The church is obsessed with sex and who is allowed and not allowed to have it, with whom, and when. It's truly disturbing. And nothing to do with 'sin', and everything to do with control.

As I keep saying, if people really knew what went on behind a lot of evangelical church doors in the UK they would be shocked and appalled.

In the evangelical group of churches I was in - one of the largest groups in the UK - it was normal practice for 18, 19, 20 year olds to get married, often after their first very short romantic relationship, because having sex outside of marriage was a big no-no. Obviously the poor things were desperate to have sex so they were rushed into marriage and this was something hugely supported and celebrated within the church. Young marriages were held up as the norm and often these young married couples would then run the youth work programme, preaching the same gospel of get married quick to stop you sinning to the kids under their care.

I had a large group of evangelical friends in my late teens and early twenties - all of them were married by 21 and pumping out kids. Most of these women are in their mid thirties now and have never had jobs. They are entirely dependent on their husbands and their entire social life is the church. Many of them are miserable and trapped in unhappy marriages to people they married far too young without knowing each other properly, but because divorce is frowned upon and their whole social life revolves around the church, they are too frightened to leave. They have nowhere to go and no one to go to. Anyone who does get divorced is shunned from the church.

It is all about control.

I am not making any of this up. You really have to be part of these churches to understand it.

@Carboncheque

Yes, I’d be worried because it doesn’t sound like she’s had much experience of religion in general. I think that exposure to mainstream religion as a child acts as an inoculation against extremist versions.

yes so do I!

I’d be worried too. My contact with the evangelical vicar and youth worker attached to DS’s old C of E school was eye-opening. There’s something deeply alarming about a 40 year old man with at least one degree who thinks the Bible is literally true.

@EnidSpyton thank you for that explanation. One of the new people I knew who married very young at 18 years old, were evangelical Christians. She had a baby 6 months after the marriage. I lost touch with them, but they never seem suited as a couple and were far too young to marry the first person they went out with at 17 years old.

@EnidSpyton

"The church as a whole is anti gay."

what the whole of the christian church?

[quote godmum56]@EnidSpyton

"The church as a whole is anti gay."

what the whole of the christian church?[/quote]
Pretty much, yeah.

@HardbackWriter that's also my experience of going to church, which was attending my grandma's church (I think Methodist) which was very open to everyone, and there were lots of people with all kinds of things going on in their lives that were all welcome, including people with LDs who would shout out, or people with severe disabilities, very elderly people, recent immigrant families that were struggling to integrate within the town- I never interacted with so many different people anywhere else. It's very easy to build a friendship and work culture which is very similar to yourself and then be critical of Church, but, and this one was very softly softly and not remotely anti women or anti gay (many of the elders were one/the other/both), it was a mix of society in the very oldest sense of absolutely anyone could go. You don't really get that anywhere else anymore, I don't think.

She's a grown woman. The Alpha course is great and she will meet loads of new people from different backgrounds. It's not the bloody Moonies.

@SpikeDearheart

No one should be pressured to convert, but if she chose it freely would that still worry you? Can you articulate why?

Plenty of religious people are also left wing politically, by the way

Yep! In the UK most evangelicals are very left wing. It’s a very different thing to right wing conservative evangelicalism that elected Trump.

It’s a natural thing that an evangelical Christian would want to share their faith with someone they love. So not that surprising. Some come to faith, some don’t.

If your sister does, then although you might not share their beliefs but Christianity should cause you to honour your family, love your neighbour, use your finances to help the poor, be growing in fruits of the spirit which are love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control.

Not so bad is it?

Could she just be trying to learn more about her partner’s beliefs so she can understand and relate to him a bit more?

Doesn’t necessarily mean she’s going to convert.

@EnidSpyton
stjamesandemmanuel.org/inclusion/
No, not all Christian Churches are anti-gay!
It is a problematic area that's for sure but your statements are way too black and white to reflect the current situation. I think a lot of things have shifted and changed in the last 20 to 30 years. Some churches may be as you describe for sure but many won't be, even at the more evangelical range of the spectrum!

13:05ErrolTheDragon

I don't understand your post. We seem to be in agreement?