To be worried my sister is doing the Alpha course?

[Southtrainer]

Just for a bit of context. My family is and always has been agnostic and left wing. My sister (early thirties) recently met a new partner who comes from a very religious evangelical Christian family. Their relationship surprised us all thinking there was be such a gulf that they wouldn’t stay together long but recently my brother told me my sister is doing the Alpha course and he was concerned she might have some pressure on her to convert to their religion. I’d this right? I’ve never had any experience of this course or religion. I’m worried. Thanks for any info or experiences x

[quote paws17]@youvegottenminuteslynn - Your comments are noted & appreciated. It's no excuse but it is quite difficult defending some themes against a large opposition.[/quote]
To be fair @paws17 those of us who are atheist are used to defending our beliefs to people who tell us we are going to go to hell for eternity

If she wants to believe fairy stories rather than science there’s not much you can do about it.

Alpha does have that evangelical side to it though, so other than the homophobia the other thing I’d be wary of is her trying to drag you into it - once you’ve seen the lights you’re encourage to share it …

Christianity by definition is an evangelical religion.

He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation.

‘ Christianity by definition is an evangelical religion.

He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation.’

That’s how cults work. All religions have this aspect but some faiths, churches, sects or whatever you want to call them are more aggressive about it that others. Alpha is particularly aggressive.
Members mean £££

"All religions have this aspect but some faiths"

I don't think Judaism does.

"Tanith, yes it does. My experience serves to prove that these people exist. If what I was saying about evangelical churches wasn't true, then I wouldn't have experienced it. Many other people on this thread have verified the truth of what I'm saying. Just because you don't like it, it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Christians like you who want to deny this element of the religion are a huge part of the problem."

EnidSpyton That isn't what you claimed. Now you're trying to backtrack by pretending that I'm saying such churches don't exist when I said nothing of the kind.

Christianity is a huge umbrella that covers many different denominations and many beliefs. Of course, not all churches are like that - they couldn't possibly be!

It's not true that Christianity is homophobic, as you claimed earlier in the thread. It is true that some Christians are, just as homophobes may be found in other religions, and among agnostics and atheists.

Please don't be so ridiculous as to appropriate NAMALT in an attempt to shut down those challenging you.

You are deluded if you think Christianity isn’t homophobic! Thankfully most Christians are good enough to cherry pick the good parts and not follow the homophobic teachings. Sorry to hijack the thread OP but when Christians say Christianity isn’t homophobic it drives me crazy!

@Tanith

"Tanith, yes it does. My experience serves to prove that these people exist. If what I was saying about evangelical churches wasn't true, then I wouldn't have experienced it. Many other people on this thread have verified the truth of what I'm saying. Just because you don't like it, it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Christians like you who want to deny this element of the religion are a huge part of the problem."

EnidSpyton That isn't what you claimed. Now you're trying to backtrack by pretending that I'm saying such churches don't exist when I said nothing of the kind.

Christianity is a huge umbrella that covers many different denominations and many beliefs. Of course, not all churches are like that - they couldn't possibly be!

It's not true that Christianity is homophobic, as you claimed earlier in the thread. It is true that some Christians are, just as homophobes may be found in other religions, and among agnostics and atheists.

Please don't be so ridiculous as to appropriate NAMALT in an attempt to shut down those challenging you.

I'm not backtracking anything. You said my experience proves nothing. I am countering that by saying my experience is my proof that what I'm saying exists, exists. You seem incapable of understanding that distinction.

Christianity IS homophobic. Why are you lying? Not all Christians are homophobic, but as a religion, Christianity is homophobic. This is a fact. It says in the Bible that having sex outside of marriage between a man and a woman is a sin, and specifically that sex between two men is sinful. It's all in there in black and white. I was a Christian for twenty years. I know the Bible inside out. Don't tell me I don't know what I'm talking about. I do. Too well, sadly.

And I'm not being ridiculous by 'appropriating' NAMALT (I can appropriate it all I want, it's not a cultural identity). I think it's a perfectly apt comparison. Both NAMALT-ers and Not All Christians are (insert prejudiced belief here) operate on a system of belief that says because I'M not like that, it means that the group I'm part of isn't like that either. It's utterly delusional, false logic that enables you to legitimately participate in a discriminatory belief system while absolving yourself of any wrongdoing, or any responsibility to do anything about it.

It's not true that Christianity is homophobic, as you claimed earlier in the thread. It is true that some Christians are, just as homophobes may be found in other religions, and among agnostics and atheists.

Christianity is fundamentally homophobic and it's ridiculous to say it's not.

I agree that that doesn't mean Christians are all individually homophobic. Some genuinely aren't, I absolutely know that.

Having said that, many Christians who say they aren't homophobic in fact follow it up with the 'love the sinner' / 'as long as they don't act on it' angles - so do still believe it's wrong for gay people to have sex, be married, have children etc. They just say 'I'm not homophobic' and think that makes it true.

I’ve done Alpha! I don’t think you have anything to worry about.

She can pray and believe in God and not be a church goer / full on religious.

She might be doing Alpha just to understand a bit more about her partners religion (that’s why I did it!)

Also, I made life long amazing friends from opening my mind and my heart to religion and I’m still not religious myself.

But I am happy. My marriage is great and I love knowing more about Christianity to support my husbands beliefs.

Plus, it’s a great topic! Chill out

I'm a Christian and I have done some of the Alpha course. Imo didn't like it. If I hadn't already been a Christian I think it would have put me off.

Christianity is fundamentally homophobic For this to be true, Christ himself would have needed to say something condemning homosexuality. He didn't. Ever.
Paul has a problem with it. But I have a problem with Paul. Christ himself didn't mention it. Not something he thought worth objecting to. And he was very opinionated on tax collectors and the rich being stingy and children being silenced and women being shunned. He was very clear on what he judged and homosexuality played no part in his judgements.

@hivemindneeded

Christianity is fundamentally homophobic For this to be true, Christ himself would have needed to say something condemning homosexuality. He didn't. Ever. Paul has a problem with it. But I have a problem with Paul. Christ himself didn't mention it. Not something he thought worth objecting to. And he was very opinionated on tax collectors and the rich being stingy and children being silenced and women being shunned. He was very clear on what he judged and homosexuality played no part in his judgements.

Do you genuinely believe that the majority of Christian churches across the globe preach that being gay, having gay relationships and being in a same sex marriage is absolutely no different to being straight and doing those things?

@hivemindneeded

Christianity is fundamentally homophobic For this to be true, Christ himself would have needed to say something condemning homosexuality. He didn't. Ever. Paul has a problem with it. But I have a problem with Paul. Christ himself didn't mention it. Not something he thought worth objecting to. And he was very opinionated on tax collectors and the rich being stingy and children being silenced and women being shunned. He was very clear on what he judged and homosexuality played no part in his judgements.

You say he wasn't keen on women being shunned... He was keen on them submitting to their husbands and their husbands being the absolute leader of the household and family. Sexism like that is rife in the church's teachings and it's disingenuous to say otherwise, especially to those of us who grew up in church and attended religious schools.

Christianity is fundamentally homophobic For this to be true, Christ himself would have needed to say something condemning homosexuality. He didn't. Ever.

You can't possibly know that , Were you there?, all mention of Jesus is wrote many years after.

Christianity is fundamentally homophobic. Please feel free to post the words in the (few) Verses that some people interpret as discussing homosexuality so the uninformed can see how many there are and how clear of ambiguity they are. While you're at it, please feel free to post the New Testament's view of the Old Testament and for context, what the Old Testaments says about mixing textiles or planting fields. It is always interesting to set out the Scriptural basis that homophobes with hate in their heart use to justify their views and focus on Homosexuality and also what some Christianity-haters use to state that Christianity is fundamentally homophobic.

For the avoidance of doubt, the bold typeface of the quote in my post failed. I completely disagree that Christianity of Homophobic. Some Christians are, as are some people of other faiths and many with no faith.

I think this is a huge issue when engaging with Christians about Jesus' teachings. We only know what other people say he said.

So when 'his words' are used as supposed evidence of something, it's nonsensical to us as non believers because all it 'proves' is that at some point someone said that Jesus said / did something.

This nonsensical logic (to us as non believers) is then exacerbated when people say oh well I believe x, y and z bits of the Bible are accurate but not a, b or c.

Conveniently usually the bits that are less palatable (thoughts on gay people and women) are the bits people claim not to believe or, more often, say are misquoted / twisted and not 'what Jesus meant'.

It so often feels like Cherry picking the bits that are palatable and least likely to offend. As I said upthread, it would almost be refreshing if someone on here said 'yes as a Christian I believe it's wrong to be gay' because we have all met plenty of Christians who feel that way and surely part of them being true to their beliefs is sharing them if they are sure of them? I find it all fascinating but these reasons and more make it really hard to have a meaningful discussion about.

many people believe that Jesus himself was gay!

they were talking about this at our local C of E church recently. (Open minded Bible reading)

Anyhoo, I’m sure your sister is fine @Southtrainer

@Againstmachine

Christianity is fundamentally homophobic For this to be true, Christ himself would have needed to say something condemning homosexuality. He didn't. Ever.

You can't possibly know that , Were you there?, all mention of Jesus is wrote many years after.

Yes, but we can only go on what we have. You can't accuse Christ of being a homophobe based on things he may have said that we don't know about.

Yes, but we can only go on what we have. You can't accuse Christ of being a homophobe based on things he may have said that we don't know about.

But it was stated he never said anything 'ever' it was absolute.

But it doesn't matter he didn't exist so he won't matter.

You can't accuse Christ of being a homophobe based on things he may have said that we don't know about.

We don't know anything though. That's where faith comes in.

Believers are content to take the word of the Bible as accurate representations of people they believe existed as depicted in scripture. Non believers aren't.

To say 'Jesus never said anything homophobic' therefore doesn't sound like a sensible or possible statement as we can't even know Jesus existed as depicted, let alone what he did say or didn't say.

https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/philosophyreligionn_spirituality/1699996-The-Great-Jesus-debate-Did-he-exist-at-all-and-if-he-did-what-reasons-do-we-have-to-believe-he-was-divine

I got involved with the church only because the DCs wanted to go to Sunday School because their friends did. Surprised to find the Minister (CofS) was an old University acquaintance - openly gay, his boyfriend sat in the front pew —sometimes looking very bored—

I was converted. So much of what the sermons seemed to resonate with me. The fellowship, the intellectual stretching, the love - meant that I felt “at home” in church. I’m sure the congregation contained misogynists, racists, homophobes, hypocrites etc but probably fewer than I found as a member of the Labour Party! As the Minister used to say. “How can God be homophobic? He wanted more love in the world, not less.”