To think the anti-lockdown brigade have been proved right?

[Libertaire]

We were told that if we all got vaccinated life would return to normal, and that process would be ‘cautious but irreversible’. So we complied. I am triple-jabbed and extremely grateful for the work of the brilliant scientists who made this possible.

Yet now, we are heading inexorably back into another lockdown. The fear mongering is being ratcheted up day by day. If this was ever about public health, it cannot be now because everyone who is vulnerable to covid has been offered at least two doses of vaccine.

We surrendered our freedoms willingly, to protect ourselves and one another and because we believed that we would get them back. But that isn’t happening, is it? An authoritarian government has confiscated them permanently and we will never get them back until we take them back, which is what anti-lockdown campaigners said from the start. They have been proved right, haven’t they?

You’d better go and have a word with the virus, OP. It’s behaviour has been most appalling.

For goodness sake! We will not be going into a lockdown.

Only idiots will comply with any restrictions going forward. Unfortunately, plenty are docile enough to go along with their lives being restricted indefinitely.

@PepeSilviaDoesNotExist

For goodness sake! We will not be going into a lockdown.

You have a crystal ball? The rest of us just look at past trends and make the reasonable assumption that we will be going back into lockdown.

No-one seriously believed that Boris could guarantee no more lockdowns, did they?

He could have, though, because lockdowns are a policy decision. Maybe the right one, maybe the wrong one, but still a policy decision made by politicians. It’s not like the virus itself marches into Parliament and demands everyone vote for a lockdown.

You can say “there would be bad consequences if he didn’t bring in a lockdown”, okay, but that’s not the same thing as “he might HAVE to if the virus makes him.”

Where I live we’ve had over a year now of “we’re doing this for a few weeks I promise! Okay a few more weeks. Okay just another month or so. Okay until X date. No I didn’t say we’d end it on that date, I said we’d review it, and we’ve reviewed it and discovered that alas it has to stay.” Getting a bit tired of politicians pretending that political decisions are not their responsibility.

Why do people think the government want lockdown? What's in it for them?

The opportunity to drive people so demented with it all that they'll accept privatisation of the NHS as the price of getting out of this

Okay - even if you are right ( ), could you please explain to us all why it is that there have been lockdowns in many other countries. Is that all about the NHS as well??

I'm in another country looking at our government and trying to see them as these crazy power hungry people that so many on MN seem to believe all governments are - just not seeing it really.

It's not the unvaccinateds fault about the restrictions!!! People who choose not to have the jab are making the choice about themselves and only putting themselves at 'risk',
Plus everyone waiting on other treatments by filling up hospitals delaying appointments.
Running medical staff into the ground.
It isn't a case of one person's risk.

It was clear even before the pandemic that the NHS isn't fit for purpose.

Health should actually be taken out of party politics altogether so it can't be bounced around as a political football. Long term plans could then be seen through instead of everything being at the mercy of five year parliaments. Some way then could be found of formulating a European style insurance system, instead of the current stinking hypocrisy of each party claiming they care more than the other.

Wow.

Science is real, yano!

Science isn't a conspiracy theory, it's facts.

@LumosSolem

Well done, you missed the point entirely.

How?

Guessing from your response you didn't actually give a shit about ODA cuts anyway but I'm not surprised. Virtue signalling is obviously far more important.

Christ.

Because I was replying to an obvious bullshit point that viruses are "natural" and so we and we can't do anything about it.

Which is nonsense, and taking no action in the face of thousands losing their lives is immoral. Whether I give a shit about ODA cuts - which, as a matter of fact, I do because it is actually to hold more than one thought in my head- or any other argument is entirely fucking irrelevant.

All you have done is build a huge strawman and label it "virtue signalling". Just piss off.

@TheKeatingFive

Oh I remember it well OP.

'It's just until the vaccines'

'Just until the vulnerable are vaccinated'

'Just until all adults are vaccinated, surely you can hold on til then'

'Just another two weeks'

All turned out to be hokum. The only way we move on from this is if people stop complying. I, for one, am done.

Absolutely correct.

These ongoing restrictions on our lives and our freedoms stopped being about public health once the vulnerable were fully vaccinated. They are now about a government which, having been surprised by the extent of public compliance, is determined to entrench its power by maintaining them indefinitely.

Fear is being used as a method of controlling a vaccinated population. This only ends when WE say it ends.

YANBU

@DappledOliveGroves

It's never made any sense. I've been against every lockdown. The sheer arrogance to think (a) that we can control a virus and (b) that somehow the human race is special and that we have a right to be 'safe'. What utter bollocks.

Never made any sense? Just like your post then!

@Justcallmebebes

All those saying "what lock down?" Just wait

I'll be getting on with my life in the meantime. Mask on, and WFH to free public transport up for those who can't. People need to chill.

They are now about a government which, having been surprised by the extent of public compliance, is determined to entrench its power by maintaining them indefinitely.

What fucking power?!?!

What government sits around loving the idea of tanking the economy or riling up the population or making people miserable?

To what end? What do you really think they want? What do you think it gets them? Do you think that Boris is gaining more popularity because of restrictions? Do you think that if he could possibly avoid it, he wouldn't?

What is the conspiracy, is my question.

(If you mean about restricting political protests or stripping people of citizenship, we can have a conversation. But keeping people out of pubs or having them wear masks in supermarkets? What does that actually give them?)

@TulipsGarden

We're not in lockdown. If we didn't have vaccines we must definitely would be, but we're not.

Why do people think the government want lockdown? What's in it for them? It costs them vast amounts of money, pisses off the electorate, it's a nightmare.

Because many are seemingly incapable of critical thought?

This is an interesting opinion piece in the BMJ.. blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2021/08/23/does-the-fda-think-these-data-justify-the-first-full-approval-of-a-covid-19-vaccine/.

It questions the vaccine effectiveness and the ongoing belief that despite all of the questions surrounding the vaccine, this is the only solution we have. We now know that the vaccine is not effective against transmission or against catching the virus and the immunity conferred by the vaccine wanes somewhere between 3 and 6 months.

The narrative has changed from 'the vaccine is 90% effective' to.. 'the vaccine in 90% effective against hospitalisation for 6 months'. This was not what was said at the start.. I accept that the waning issue could not have been known at the outset but before the vaccine was granted emergency use status, the evidence was already there that the immunity was not durable.

We have swallowed this narrative without question and we repeat it and call people who question it idiots. The initial narrative was that the vaccine was our ticket out of this and that immunity between 60 and 70% would be enough to to provide herd immunity. Now we howl that those remaining unvaccinated people are causing the problem and the quoted figures are much higher. We shout, follow the science, the picture is evolving, the virus is unpredictable but we are relying on an imperfect vaccine and constantly changing the narrative to fit the latest facts.

The vaccine does not do what it was promised to do (I am vaccinated BTW before I get accused of anything) and there is no evidence to suggest that further doses will make things better.

In the meantime, we are spending significant amounts of resources vaccinating and testing with no real analysis of how effective these strategies are. I feel like we are throwing snowballs at a radiator, expecting it to cool down.

I do hope... I am an eternal optimist.... that the daily death rates continue to remain low and that we find a way to come out of this and move forward.

Also, I cannot stand the man. I am not defending him. I think what he's done is noxious, and I think his approach has been weak and confusing.

But I really, really, really hate all these mindless conspiracies. It's not healthy.

“ Yet now, we are heading inexorably back into another lockdown”

Really ? Says who ?

@Nancydrawn

Also, I cannot stand the man. I am not defending him. I think what he's done is noxious, and I think his approach has been weak and confusing.

But I really, really, really hate all these mindless conspiracies. It's not healthy.

Absolutely.

@Tigertigertigertiger

“ Yet now, we are heading inexorably back into another lockdown”

Really ? Says who ?

Errr, history. You were around in 2020, right?

@Scautish

Disagree. Not enough people vaccinated. Too many twats who think they know better than scientists. So because of them we’re back in a fucking lockdown.

Also - it’s a fucking virus and it’s just doing what viruses do. It’s quite hard to build legislation around them (though this government have been spectacularly incompetent)

Except we're not 🙄 ( in fucking lockdown)

YABU

Viruses do what they do, politicians can't control them they can only react to what is happening.

Also children have not been vaccinated.

Until my children can be vaccinated I'd rather the virus doesn't run rampant.

@Nancydrawn

Also, I cannot stand the man. I am not defending him. I think what he's done is noxious, and I think his approach has been weak and confusing.

But I really, really, really hate all these mindless conspiracies. It's not healthy.

Calling every objection to Covid restrictions a conspiracy theory is just as silly as looking for conspiracy everywhere. It’s not smart to just discredit everything people by calling it a conspiracy theory. In some cases it’s a bit silly.

@Libertaire

We were told that if we all got vaccinated life would return to normal, and that process would be ‘cautious but irreversible’. So we complied. I am triple-jabbed and extremely grateful for the work of the brilliant scientists who made this possible.

Yet now, we are heading inexorably back into another lockdown. The fear mongering is being ratcheted up day by day. If this was ever about public health, it cannot be now because everyone who is vulnerable to covid has been offered at least two doses of vaccine.

We surrendered our freedoms willingly, to protect ourselves and one another and because we believed that we would get them back. But that isn’t happening, is it? An authoritarian government has confiscated them permanently and we will never get them back until we take them back, which is what anti-lockdown campaigners said from the start. They have been proved right, haven’t they?

If 95%+ were vaccinated it likely would be over. Blame the thicko anti vaxxers